Author Topic: Engine Swaps - out of excuses  (Read 8112 times)

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« on: May 05, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »
I've been kinda dragging my heels getting started on this project, finding other things to do instead.  But, I want to drive and enjoy my new '70 Cutlass this summer, and it needs the anemic 260 replaced with a stronger 350.  The engines are both in complete, running cars and need to be swapped so I wind up with two complete, running cars.  So basically two engine (and transmission) swaps.  The fun part is that I've never done this before.  I'll post up some blow by blow, disaster by disaster photos as previously requested and fully expected, of course!

Transmissions are getting swapped as well.  The one I want in the '70 has a shift kit already installed and working.  Engines and transmissions will be removed separately.

The "subject" cars can be seen in the photos in this thread.  The grey 1970 Cutlass will be receiving the Olds 350 currently sitting in the tan 1972 Cutlass.  http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=19250.msg430206#msg430206

In the process of the swap I hope to paint the 350, replace a few small parts, install NOS Holley valve covers, replace some seals on the trans and clean up the '70's engine bay.

Wish me luck, I'm gonna need it!

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 02:58:44 PM »
Should have stuck to the Bugs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,motor out in 20 minutes :))

You will do just fine.  Take your time, take lots of pics, have a bottle of Jafe Juice on hand and get after it. 

If the Fatman and Little Buddy can pull a motor out of a fork lift and stick it back in, you can do the swaps.
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Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 03:09:18 PM »
I have never done a combo engine transmission swap from one car and into another. That said I do not understand why you do not just snake the engine trans combo out of each vehicle and swap them back into the other vehicle the same way, all one shot, not separated. Unless you are swapping transmissions between engines and even then I would swap transmissions and once bolted up reinstall it as one unit I would be inclined to want to do both in one shot.

Please explain what I am missing here?  shrugx
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Offline Altec

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 04:42:54 PM »
Takes the engines and transmissions out together. It is easier. Just remove the driveshaft and crossmember. A load leveler is nice, but I don't use one
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Offline slip knot

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 04:52:10 PM »
If you decide to pull the engine and trans together....make very sure you got an old output yoke or get a plug made for closeing up the output shaft. Nothing worse than several quarts of ATF coming to see you right in the middle of the removal.....I'm of the pull them both camp. much easier. thumbsup2
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Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2017, 05:00:38 PM »
Good luck!! -- engine and trans together are usually easier.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 05:20:59 PM »
VWs are too easy, I can do them in my sleep now!  Time for some challenges...

I've been back and forth on whether to separate them.  I'll need to separate the 350 to put it on the stand while I clean/paint/detail the engine anyhow.  My primary concern is that I'll be doing most of it myself and even a slow moving 700 pound mass over good paint and bodywork is more than a little daunting.  I'm not as concerned about the '72.  I've been known to get on site and change my plan so I may still do them together.

Great advice on the old output shaft.  I experienced the mess when I pulled engine/trans from my last parts car.  I should be getting one from a friend this week or I'll splurge and buy the tool.

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 07:25:46 PM »
Hope you take some pics Clay -- would definitely like to see those wonderful cars.

Offline Muddy

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 08:03:56 PM »
Yep take them both at the same time.

Take lots of pictures to share here!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 09:01:09 PM »
I found more excuses to procrastinate :-D   Well, that and I've changed my plan after some of the comments here and elsewhere. 

I have a "442" spoiler, otherwise known as the W35 option which a friend of mine resprayed satin black last month.  Rather than trying to find a safe place to stash it out of harm's way or transfering it from roof to roof, I drilled the holes and installed it on the '70 yesterday.

As for the change of plans, I decided to use the 4 post lift and engine crane and pull the engine/trans together.  I'll remove from the tan car first as I'm not as concerned about damaging it...not that i want to damage it...but it's a lower stress learning platform.  To do that, I need to move a couple cars out into the yard for a while and move some engines/parts around in the shop.  So I've been working on that the last couple of days.

Yes, lots of photos...I know how you guys work here  :)

Installing the spoiler was pretty straight forward.   I have a factory diagram showing correct measurements to the holes, so it was just a matter of locating the center of the decklid, measuring carefully, used a spring loaded center punch and drilled the holes.


Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 09:17:29 PM »
Looking great! Spoiler makes a load of difference --

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 10:36:04 PM »
Move the metric tools all to the side,  SAE here, as you know.  Glad you got the equipment to do both at once,  nothing like stretching things with too little equipment.  Always liked the 442. 

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2017, 02:40:47 AM »
It's moving along nicely considering I'm lucky to get a couple hours an evening to work on it, and this weekend was poached by my daughter's birthday and Mother's Day.  I've got everything disconnected (I hope!), and was happy to successfully remove the two exhaust pipe to manifold bolts.  Now I'm wondering if pulling the engine with the car on the four post lift is going to work.  You can see in this picture the car is about a foot off the ground with the lift at the lowest I can put it to clear the engine hoist.  The hoist is hooked up but not taking any weight yet, so the front suspension is still loaded.  I'm not sure I'll have enough clearance to move the engine/trans unit away from the car.

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2017, 06:31:35 AM »
Seeing the car setting on the lift like that concerned me a bit as well. Pulling the transmission with the engine will require getting the most out of your engine hoist and losing a foot might prove a problem. Dragging both engine and transmission out as one would usually require having the engine tilted at quite an angle for the tail of the transmission to clear the radiator core support and related parts. I would also expect that even setting flat on the ground you would be working at the maximum limits for both height and boom on the hoist due to pulling both the engine and transmission together. (which is still the best way)  That said, that loss of a foot of height is too much in my opinion.

It looks as though you are a bit committed at this point. Give that fact the easiest solution to the problem will probably mean having to pull the engine and transmission separately. Too bad, pulling them together would have been better but at this point I think that is no longer an option.
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Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2017, 08:28:30 AM »
I agree with Buck, I don't thing you'll have enough lift travel in that cherry picker to clear the engine over the front of that car.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2017, 09:26:47 AM »
Thanks guys, I think you're both right on the height issue which was my concern as well.  I'm not at the point of no return yet.

I'll move the cars around tonight so I can do the pull off the lift.  The engine/trans haven't been shifted yet, and I do have a clear bay (once I move the '70).  Means a little extra pushing the cars around the yard but that's ok.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2017, 10:08:15 AM »
If you still have concerns about the height and length needed to pull both the engine and transmission together you can usually pick up a few inches (but not much) by pulling the front wheels and lowering the front of the car just a wee bit. You would not pick up many inches though due to the legs of the picker extending up under the car. That said, sometimes even 1-2 inches can make a world of difference when needed.

Honestly though, I think if the car is simply setting on the floor you should have no problem pulling both the engine and transmission as one. I would strongly consider one of those lift plates that bolts down where the carb usually does that allows for several pick points. If not that one of those load levelers you can change on the fly because you will have a much greater degree of tilt back towards the firewall as you increase height get the clearance needed over the core support.

It might be a good idea to get a fat friend to stand on the back of the hoist to assure things stay firmly planted to the floor once you start working towards the upper limits on your boom. Sometimes it is nice to have a fat friend to lend a hand, or simply just a bunch of ballast/weight! LOL   grinx
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2017, 11:24:50 AM »
I'm not worried about clearance once it's on the ground, just figured the loss of a foot when on the lift would be cutting it way too fine as you observed.  I picked up a new load leveller last Friday, so good to go there.  The simple lifting plate (I have one of those too) doesn't let you adjust the angle of the dangle as I learned on my last engine pull.  The entire front end of the car had been removed for that one though.

It's a good thing I didn't start lifting it last night too...this morning I realized I haven't disconnected the shift linkage yet  billcat

Oh, and I'm usually the fat friend...

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 11:35:07 AM »
I'm not worried about clearance once it's on the ground, just figured the loss of a foot when on the lift would be cutting it way too fine as you observed.  I picked up a new load leveller last Friday, so good to go there.  The simple lifting plate (I have one of those too) doesn't let you adjust the angle of the dangle as I learned on my last engine pull.  The entire front end of the car had been removed for that one though.

It's a good thing I didn't start lifting it last night too...this morning I realized I haven't disconnected the shift linkage yet  billcat

Oh, and I'm usually the fat friend...

I have wanted one of those load levelers for some time myself. Very nice to be able to adjust the angle on the fly and if I was doing the job you are I would not even start the job without one. Sounds like you are set!
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2017, 11:57:07 AM »
I have wanted one of those load levelers for some time myself. Very nice to be able to adjust the angle on the fly and if I was doing the job you are I would not even start the job without one. Sounds like you are set!

I already had one but it only had one chain on each end and no cranking handle.  It was a bit inconvenient and I was concerned the setup would cause the mass to twist diagonally giving poor control.  Rather than chase down new components, new seemed to be the better option.

On that last removal I learned that using a lifting plate hooked to the load leveller was useless...gotta use one or the other and the leveller won't work on a single, central lift point.

Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2017, 01:18:57 PM »
Lowering air pressure in the tire might help some, ratchet straps pulling spring pressure down might also help but then you cant shift the car which I find I need to often. However since its on the lift you could easily get a few extra inches. If nothing else you can lift it then support the trans while the engine is forward of the firewall making it a breeze to separate.
Be certain the trans is supported well.
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2017, 07:36:44 PM »
Take off the front wheels, that will gain you close to six inches. It can sit on the rotors a few days, especially sans engine.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2017, 08:22:58 PM »
Good ideas.  Wheels off might do the trick.

Offline slip knot

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2017, 10:43:42 PM »
I used to keep a set of steel wheels when doing 4X4 engine swaps. no tires just wheels. Really helped out on them. but a car shouldn't be much trouble
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2017, 10:59:18 PM »
I think pulling the wheels off will get the nose sitting close to where it would be if it was on axle stands, which will help.  Also puts the car at a favourable angle for the extraction.  The engine crane is 92" floor to the bottom of the swivel hook and 99" to the top of the first shackle.  This should work.  Here, hold my beer...

Wish me luck!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2017, 02:12:34 AM »
Well, I did learn a few things tonight.

- Car can't sit on the rotors without crushing the backing plates.  (No, I didn't crush them)  I had a pair of rims without rubber, so they're bolted up.  That got me about 6"
- With single exhaust, the crossover pipe won't clear the front cross member.  Looks like it needs to be removed, or the exhaust manifolds removed.
- Beer gets warm when forgotten

I'm feeling better about the height factor now, the car's a little lower and a better angle and I removed the swivel hook from the lifting mechanism for another 7" gain.

Now I need to decide how to move forward...

- Remove the crossover pipe (a little worried about shearing the bolts)
- Remove the exhaust manifolds (both).  Again, leary about shearing bolts.  I know...get over it...   Bslap
- Remove the transmission support to see if that lets me rotate the mass enough to clear
- Separate engine/transmission and pull them separately

Offline pepi

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 07:20:15 AM »
 Couple of things to add, altho late to the party. The load leveler is a great piece, hepled me shoe horn the motor into the wife's truck. Litterly down and inch raise the rear of the tail shaft a half inch, in 3 inches, repeat as needed.... cannot beat em.

If you have not cannot tell from the picture, might consider removing the radiator, cross member also if not too difficult, and the grill would be a real plus.

Will allow more forward movement of the block. once it is swinging in the air, adjust the load level, manually lift the tail housing to clear the fender and swing the motor 180, and it's anchors away.

 Personally a lift and is typical of em, eats up more room than the usefulness it provides for limited occasions.

Maybe something above you may find some use for.

PS "The engine crane is 92" floor to the bottom of the swivel hook and 99" to the top of the first shackle. "

 Better rethink that, load leveler takes maybe a foot out of that measurement. Ill hold your beer..

Doing well pulling this off..
Greg
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 07:26:19 AM by pepi »
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2017, 10:04:21 AM »
I'd go ahead and pull the radiatior, and the top bar of the radiator saddle, having more room is always good.   Only on occasion did I have a load leveler, I would use a cable come along to tilt the engine some.   If you do separate the engine from the trans, leave the trans under there, support it at the front with a small chain,  side to side from the frame rails.  Have had engines I pulled the water pump, front pulley, and exhaust manifolds before lifting it out.   If you lose a manifold bolt, its going to be out on the floor anyhow. 

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2017, 10:14:37 AM »
A couple of thoughts on exhaust manifold bolt removal I learned the hard way years ago. Exhaust manifold bolts come out of an engine that is or has been started and ran recently or daily easily in my experience. I don't know for sure how tough removal of exhaust manifold bolts is from engines resting in cars that have been stored inside, perhaps they are not too tough to remove. Exhaust manifold bolt removal from engines in junk yards from vehicles with engines that have been sleeping for Lord only knows how long is night and day different  from removing them from your daily driver. Exhaust manifold bolts are harder bolts. I do not know what degree of hardness they are but I suspect harder than a grade 8.

As for the bolts found downstream in the exhaust system a good impact driver and 6pt sockets are your friend there. Before you bolt everything back up I would suggest using brass nuts on the flange where the exhaust manifolds meet the crossover pipe. I am also a fan of double nutting them as well.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 10:35:00 AM »
I'd go ahead and pull the radiator, and the top bar of the radiator saddle, having more room is always good.   Only on occasion did I have a load leveler, I would use a cable come along to tilt the engine some.   If you do separate the engine from the trans, leave the trans under there, support it at the front with a small chain,  side to side from the frame rails.  Have had engines I pulled the water pump, front pulley, and exhaust manifolds before lifting it out.   If you lose a manifold bolt, its going to be out on the floor anyhow.

I too am a fan of pulling the radiator. I figure that if there is some stupid way to ram the snout of the water pump through the radiator it's a copper riveted cinch that I will get that done!  Besides, like as not I am going to be replacing both the upper and lower hoses as well on reassembly so this is just getting a head start and giving me a bit more elbow room in the process.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2017, 10:37:29 AM »
I think pulling the wheels off will get the nose sitting close to where it would be if it was on axle stands, which will help.  Also puts the car at a favourable angle for the extraction.  The engine crane is 92" floor to the bottom of the swivel hook and 99" to the top of the first shackle.  This should work.  Here, hold my beer...

Wish me luck!

Is that full extension of the boom arm? I hope not, if so I would say that is a short little fella isn't it?  :o
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline kwoswalt99

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2017, 10:40:52 AM »
A couple of thoughts on exhaust manifold bolt removal I learned the hard way years ago. Exhaust manifold bolts come out of an engine that is or has been started and ran recently or daily easily in my experience. I don't know for sure how tough removal of exhaust manifold bolts is from engines resting in cars that have been stored inside, perhaps they are not too tough to remove. Exhaust manifold bolt removal from engines in junk yards from vehicles with engines that have been sleeping for Lord only knows how long is night and day different  from removing them from your daily driver. Exhaust manifold bolts are harder bolts. I do not know what degree of hardness they are but I suspect harder than a grade 8.

As for the bolts found downstream in the exhaust system a good impact driver and 6pt sockets are your friend there. Before you bolt everything back up I would suggest using brass nuts on the flange where the exhaust manifolds meet the crossover pipe. I am also a fan of double nutting them as well.

Does warming up the engine help?
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Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2017, 11:00:36 AM »
On the exhaust studs/bolts I have learned it helps to wire brush all the dirt, rust scale off of the threads. Soak them in "In force" or equivalent. WD40 not so great. Then use your propane torch to heat the stud or nut/bolt after a heat cycle or two it will often bust free with ease. Never a guarantee.  thumbsup2
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2017, 11:18:08 AM »
A couple of thoughts on exhaust manifold bolt removal I learned the hard way years ago. Exhaust manifold bolts come out of an engine that is or has been started and ran recently or daily easily in my experience. I don't know for sure how tough removal of exhaust manifold bolts is from engines resting in cars that have been stored inside, perhaps they are not too tough to remove. Exhaust manifold bolt removal from engines in junk yards from vehicles with engines that have been sleeping for Lord only knows how long is night and day different  from removing them from your daily driver. Exhaust manifold bolts are harder bolts. I do not know what degree of hardness they are but I suspect harder than a grade 8.

As for the bolts found downstream in the exhaust system a good impact driver and 6pt sockets are your friend there. Before you bolt everything back up I would suggest using brass nuts on the flange where the exhaust manifolds meet the crossover pipe. I am also a fan of double nutting them as well.

Does warming up the engine help?

First I would try them cold as they are. If the engine has been in use recently there should be no problems anyway.

I think it would help if the engine can be started. In fact I would be inclined to put some welding gloves on and try removing the bolts while they are still hot after the engine has been started and brought up to temperature. Things almost always come apart easier hot.

Sadly, when I faced this situation it was snowing like crazy and I was trying to remove a manifold from an old car that had been setting in a yard for who knows how long. I worked for a number of hours to remove the manifold bolts with nothing but hand tools. I will never forget the sick feeling in the pit of my guy when at some point I grabbed a cold chisel and began wailing away on that only to find defeat in my task when a careless blow sunk the chisel through the exhaust manifold!  frustrated

That was a lesson hard learned and never forgot. That life lesson came at about 20 years old, just old enough to know virtually nothing! You can bet I never forgot that cold day of defeat in that old junk yard.
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2017, 12:37:37 PM »
I pulled the radiator at the start, there's lots of room to move the engine forward once I can get that exhaust crossover up and past the crossmember.  The crossmember is the one under the engine, integral to the suspension.  It's not coming out, but removing the transmission support might help.  Nobody has said otherwise so far.

The engine has been run a bit, debatable that it warmed up fully in the last few months though.  Those bolts are just giving me the stinkeye though so I'm not sure I want to press my luck with them.  I might give them a couple bumps and see how it goes.

The four post lift was really useful for prepping the car, but now it's in the way of getting underneath easily.  I was hoping to avoid pushing cars all around the yard to get them positioned favourably.  Looking more and more as if I won't have much option.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2017, 12:59:14 PM »
I pulled the radiator at the start, there's lots of room to move the engine forward once I can get that exhaust crossover up and past the crossmember.  The crossmember is the one under the engine, integral to the suspension.  It's not coming out, but removing the transmission support might help.  Nobody has said otherwise so far.

The engine has been run a bit, debatable that it warmed up fully in the last few months though.  Those bolts are just giving me the stinkeye though so I'm not sure I want to press my luck with them.  I might give them a couple bumps and see how it goes.

The four post lift was really useful for prepping the car, but now it's in the way of getting underneath easily.  I was hoping to avoid pushing cars all around the yard to get them positioned favourably.  Looking more and more as if I won't have much option.

Where are the stubborn bolts? At the head, or down on the collector?

Why not just remove the crossover pipe that should take care of everything. If needed use a torch to heat those bolts up. Once the crossover is gone then you should have a clear path for the transmission. I suspect that if you remove the crossover the exhaust manifolds can stay with the engine during removal once out removing the exhaust manifold bolts would be much easier with a torch assist if needed.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 01:08:48 PM by Uncle Buck »
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2017, 01:35:04 PM »
Where are the stubborn bolts? At the head, or down on the collector?

More like bolts that I assume will be stubborn...take your pick - exhaust manifold to head, or crossover pipe to exhaust manifold.  I do well at dismantling parts cars because I don't care if fasteners shear off...so I'm good at shearing them.  On this job I obviously want to avoid making unnecessary work drilling out busted things.

Quote
Why not just remove the crossover pipe that should take care of everything. If needed use a torch to heat those bolts up. Once the crossover is gone then you should have a clear path for the transmission. I suspect that if you remove the crossover the exhaust manifolds can stay with the engine during removal once out removing the exhaust manifold bolts would be much easier with a torch assist if needed.

Gas axe is one of the tools I don't have setup at the moment...got everything but the tanks.  It's on my to-do/to-get list, but not this month.  Yes, removing the crossover will make the rest of the job much easier.  It may be what I have to do.

Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2017, 01:46:48 PM »
Sawzall if need be.  :mr:
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2017, 01:55:21 PM »
Sawzall if need be.  :mr:

Trying to avoid that...

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2017, 01:55:47 PM »
Where are the stubborn bolts? At the head, or down on the collector?

More like bolts that I assume will be stubborn...take your pick - exhaust manifold to head, or crossover pipe to exhaust manifold.  I do well at dismantling parts cars because I don't care if fasteners shear off...so I'm good at shearing them.  On this job I obviously want to avoid making unnecessary work drilling out busted things.

Quote
Why not just remove the crossover pipe that should take care of everything. If needed use a torch to heat those bolts up. Once the crossover is gone then you should have a clear path for the transmission. I suspect that if you remove the crossover the exhaust manifolds can stay with the engine during removal once out removing the exhaust manifold bolts would be much easier with a torch assist if needed.

Gas axe is one of the tools I don't have setup at the moment...got everything but the tanks.  It's on my to-do/to-get list, but not this month.  Yes, removing the crossover will make the rest of the job much easier.  It may be what I have to do.

If you do try unbolting the crossover soak it down real good. Use an impact. First give the gun a short burp clockwise, tightening, then reverse and to the same counterclockwise. Keep repeating and this might get you there. Even a hand held propane torch can supply enough heat to those bolts if you work it right. I would heat before hosing it down with slickem first though!  flameon
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2017, 03:08:48 AM »
Well, I won this round but what a fight it was!  I had to remove the transmission cross member, but that still wasn't enough, so I had to brave the exhaust manifold bolts.  They came out so easily I'm feeling pretty damned silly now.  Driver side engine mount also had to come off due to the heat shield not letting the manifold drop away from the engine.  I was able to clear the core support by a hair, and the patient is now resting comfortably on the shop floor.

Round 2 - Repeat the process to remove the 260 from my 1970.  Will I tackle it the same way?  I'm not quite sure yet...but I have a couple days to consider it.
Round 3 - Reverse the process and install the 260 in the 1972...the old learning grounds.
Round 4 - Clean up, paint and get that 350 into the 1970.

I just bought a reproduction OAI hood for the '70, will have that next week then I'll need to look at doing some minor fiberglass repair, paint matching and so on after the dust settles from these engine swaps.

Photos later, sleep now!

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2017, 09:10:31 AM »
Congratulations Clay -- job well done! Looking forward to the pics

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2017, 05:13:29 PM »
Have been  sharepopcorn with anticipation and am glad you got it out. Getting the other one out and putting them both back in will be a piece of cake now that you know what you have to do hidex.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2017, 05:41:33 PM »
Have been  sharepopcorn with anticipation and am glad you got it out. Getting the other one out and putting them both back in will be a piece of cake now that you know what you have to do hidex.

"Piece of cake" might be pushing it, but it should go easier this time knowing what needs to be removed before I start.  Thanks for following along and helping keep me motivated all!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2017, 10:59:00 PM »
yep, they get easier with experience. the rest should be a cakewalk. thumbsup2
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2017, 10:00:45 PM »
Here are the promised photos...showing the exhaust crossover pipe that caused me so much trouble.  It was right up against the crossmember and there was no way to tilt the back of the engine far enough to get clearance.  So, if you have a single exhaust, that crossover must be removed. 

Wound up having to take more off the engine than I had planned - some brackets that shared bolts with other things, all accessories and so forth.  That's fine, I need to clean and paint them all anyhow so the engine looks pretty going into the new car. 

The engine hoist went to full reach in order to get the needed clearance, but it was enough.  I really choked up on the chain and hook though which meant I didn't have a swivel between the arm and the leveller.  I think that made me have to fight to straighten the engine a bit...going to have to see if I can rework that.  The leveller design also sucks.  The chains interfere with the crank at some angles.  Now I know why my old one doesn't have the crank handle anymore.

And of course I had to strike the victory pose!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2017, 10:10:31 PM »
Great job and fantastic pics! Thank you for sharing. I liked the victory pose too!  thumbsup2
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2017, 10:14:36 PM »
Great job and fantastic pics! Thank you for sharing. I liked the victory pose too!  thumbsup2

+1 -- good work Clay - thanks for sharing.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2017, 11:45:23 PM »
 thumbsup2 good job. thumbsup2
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Offline tool hunter

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2017, 10:57:01 AM »
Well done. A bit different than pulling a VW engine but you are getting the hang of it.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2017, 01:25:12 PM »
Took you long enough. angryguyx :-*
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2017, 09:48:32 PM »
Excellent!
I'm just a guy in a garage with some tools...

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2017, 09:43:21 AM »
I liked the victory pose too!  thumbsup2

Digging the pose too thumbsup2

Glad you got it out!
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2017, 05:17:21 PM »
Almost a week has passed and the scene in the shop hasn't changed much.  Had other evening obligations last week then the past two days I was at a Rock Music festival with my drivable Cutlass.  Great lineup of Canadian bands that were big on the charts in my younger years.  Lots of fun.

Now I'm off until next Monday so hoping to get this project moved wayyyy forward.  Today is shop cleanup, organizing/room making and car swap around.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2017, 11:02:39 AM »
Very nice job. That last pic makes it look like I helped you as that red stuff would be blood off all my knuckles. lolx

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2017, 02:57:52 PM »
Very nice job. That last pic makes it look like I helped you as that red stuff would be blood off all my knuckles. lolx

LOL...I had to check to make sure it was the car and not me  :)

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2017, 12:16:43 AM »
Had to spend some time organizing in the shop; I bought a crapload of VW parts a couple months ago and wound up with 18 engine carcasses taking up valuable space.  They're stacked a bit better now.  Before the 350 goes into the good car, I want to clean and paint it which meant putting it on an engine stand.  While I have two engine stands, both had 455s attached...so I jerry rigged a mobile cradle from some scrap wood and a wheel dolly.  Simple, ugly, effective!  The notch was to clear a bulge in the pan.

I thought I had an input shaft that would work to keep the transmission from leaking, but it turned out to be the wrong size.  So I got a shop glove and taped it on.  It filled with ATF of course.  Left a bloody trail when I dragged it across the floor...looks kinda bad, huh?

Cars are now moved around and hood removed from the '70 thanks to a few friends who came by this evening.  I'll try another one piece pull with the 70 on the lift and a straight transfer into the 72 (tan) car.  It's nose in now so I can back it out of the shop and give myself enough room to work.  Now to see how far I get tonight!

My new reproduction OAI hood will be here in the morning, I'll have to see if I can get the bodywork done, paint matched and get it painted in time to debut with the new power plant.  Unfortunately I don't have the talents of Goodfellow at this point so I'll be relying on those of a friend or two.  The next parts to chase will be the Muncie 4 speed and parts for a conversion :-)


Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2017, 12:41:26 AM »
Nice to see the progress. I looked at brake shoes in the box and wondered if they will install themselves. LOL
Keep up the good work!
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2017, 12:45:27 AM »
Nice to see the progress. I looked at brake shoes in the box and wondered if they will install themselves. LOL
Keep up the good work!

Let me know how that works out for you...I have a new master cylinder in the box...   beerdude

Offline slip knot

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2017, 08:08:51 AM »
The bloody glove thumbsup2 lolx lolx
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2017, 09:04:42 AM »
Good time to do main seals, and any freeze plugs that look questionable. Also the pump seal on the trans.
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Offline tool hunter

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2017, 09:10:48 AM »
You need one of these for that trans https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-23400-Transmission-Transaxle-Plug/dp/B000P0U04G

Good time to do main seals, and any freeze plugs that look questionable. Also the pump seal on the trans.
Especially on the one your keeping.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2017, 12:24:45 PM »
I have that Lisle set. Super handy good time!
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2017, 12:40:56 PM »
The bloody glove thumbsup2 lolx lolx

LOL --- It looks like a massive cyst that is about to burst

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2017, 01:54:28 PM »
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2017, 11:13:32 PM »
Good to see someone busy.  Do some checking, I believe the clutch linkage pivot may be welded to the frame.  If it is, time to do is when the engine is out.  Would like to hear a 455 Olds underway. 

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2017, 12:33:16 AM »
Good time to do main seals, and any freeze plugs that look questionable. Also the pump seal on the trans.

Already have the seals ;-)

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2017, 12:34:54 AM »
Good to see someone busy.  Do some checking, I believe the clutch linkage pivot may be welded to the frame.  If it is, time to do is when the engine is out.  Would like to hear a 455 Olds underway.

Automatic transmission with a 350/350 for now.  Four speed and 455 down the road...still have to source the conversion parts and give the engine a good going through.  Good winter projects.  I'm looking forward to one day being in control of a 455!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2017, 01:43:37 AM »
Yet another change in plans...good to be flexible!  My friend dropped off the repro OAI hood the other morning and we talked more about his plans for the '72 that gave up it's 350.  Seems like he's got an engine lined up for it and won't need the 260 in it.  Doesn't make sense to install the transmission without the engine going in if the car's going to be trailered anyhow, so I'm pulling the transmission separately then the engine.  They need to come apart now regardless and I've had this transmission jack for a few years but never used it...

Transmission is about ready to drop now, just two bolts left, finger tight and slide the cross member back...too late to get into it tonight, so that's tomorrow evening's task.  Engine should be real quick after that and then I can start the cleaning/painting.

Here's a photo of that hood.  I still need to get the hold downs, find a fibreglass guy and get the paint colour matched.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2017, 08:15:42 AM »
classic hood design -- I also love the 442.

Offline Heiny57

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2017, 09:52:27 AM »
Great project.  sharepopcorn      Keep the pics coming
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2017, 02:02:42 AM »
And this just happened...

Transmission came out pretty easily, especially when I realized there was still one bolt in before I really started lowering it.  The things "they" don't mention:

- fluid is gonna leak out the hole for the kickdown cable.  Damned if I didn't catch a drop on my eyelid.  None got in my eye fortunately...no eyewash station although I do have a sink with running water.
- the cross member only comes out one way...turns out there's a practical reason why the trans pan isn't square and has a diagonal corner
- never a word about getting the transmission off (or back on) the trans jack.  That sucker is kinda heavy...I suppose it would have been a bit lighter if I'd pulled out the torque converter first.
- a trans jack with higher lift is better!

Still and all, nice to have the lift and tools like that jack.  I was offered a "only used it once" 1000 kg rotisserie today for $1000...goes for $1700 (CDN) new with taxes included.  Debating picking it up for future projects, but that still seems a bit rich to me.  I might see if he'd go for a bit less.

Engine next, probably tomorrow night after cruising into the car club gathering.  Have to drain and remove the rad, disconnect a few more wires, engine mount bolts and pull the carb to mount the lifting plate.  That will be followed by some more figuring out how to squeeze 20 pounds of crap into a 10 pound bag...or making myself a bit of room to do the cleaning/painting and prep work.

Finding a few things along the way.  A couple bare/cracked wires leading to the starter solenoid, some other slightly dubious wiring.  When they repainted the car, they didn't carry the new colour down the fender into the engine compartment, so I'm going to have to figure out how to clean those areas up.

Yes, that's transmission fluid on the floor.  I'm pretty sure I'm not bleeding tonight.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 02:07:07 AM by Der Bugmeister »

Offline Muddy

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2017, 06:44:04 AM »
Only way you learn all those things is to do them yourself. thumbsup2

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Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2017, 07:54:34 AM »
Hey -- no fair!  A full height lift and a transmission jack; that's cheating!!! It ain't an engine swap unless you're laying on the ground with a floor jack on the tranny and cursing to high heaven.  hornetsx

Looking great Clay  thumbsup2

Offline Altec

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2017, 12:31:16 PM »
You aren't wrenching until you slide under a car with a th400 on your gut and you pick it up, put it on the dowels and then use one hand to start a bolt. lolx
"Play stupid games, you get stupid prizes."JJ

Offline Chuck Farley

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2017, 01:12:07 PM »
^^^  X2!   :) :) :)

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2017, 01:52:48 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^Oh to be young again and to be able to do that.
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2017, 01:55:16 PM »
You aren't wrenching until you slide under a car with a th400 on your gut and you pick it up, put it on the dowels and then use one hand to start a bolt. lolx




 :)) :)) :))  == so true!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2017, 02:46:19 PM »
Phil, you mean you don't?   If you got a hoist,  don't HAVE to have a transmission jack, though it is nice.    Unbolt near everything on the tranny, get a 55 gallon drum, mount it on wheels, lower the car til the trans rests on the barrel, have wood blocks handy.  Slide the tranny onto the barrel, lift the car away.   This way you only spend a little time on your knees.  At this point you are glad you put caster wheels under the barrel. 

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2017, 04:05:28 PM »
Bah, I paid my dues doing that with VW swingaxle transmissions amongst other things.  Always fun when the axle slips off the trailing arm and you catch it with your head.  Getting too old for that nonsense now.  I think most of us are at that age where we can appreciate working smarter, not harder!  beerdude

I've got a TH400 on the floor as well...yeah, heavier than the 350 and it's going to be a real treat come upgrade time.  But that's what friends are for...maybe I should go out and make one or two.

Anyhow, it's all good.  Turning wrenches in the shop is all zen time anyhow, right?

Offline tool hunter

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2017, 10:29:31 PM »
You aren't wrenching until you slide under a car with a th400 on your gut and you pick it up, put it on the dowels and then use one hand to start a bolt. lolx
Oh the memories of doing that a few more times than I wanted to.

Offline slip knot

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2017, 11:24:09 PM »
You aren't wrenching until you slide under a car with a th400 on your gut and you pick it up, put it on the dowels and then use one hand to start a bolt. lolx

BTDT and 30 yrs later hate myself for doing it, every morning. :groaner:
Started with nothing and still have most of it left.

When did the American Dream become an entitlement program?

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2017, 11:30:21 PM »
Sheesh, y'all keep talking like this and I won't be too motivated to go out and try it myself...I'll just have to keep cheating.   :))

Offline tool hunter

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2017, 12:15:13 AM »
Come on don't be like that. You have to at least try it just once. Then even you can say yeah I've done that. Just remember back in the day the only way you had a lift in your home shop was if you lived above the service station. Everything that had to be done under the car was done with jack stands and creepers.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2017, 02:10:34 AM »
Come on don't be like that. You have to at least try it just once. Then even you can say yeah I've done that.

Uh huh...and if I were silly enough to do that now all I'd hear is "Why didn't you use your skookum tools you dumb cluck?".  It's like arguing with your wife, there's no winning.   flameon

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2017, 09:56:00 AM »
Come on don't be like that. You have to at least try it just once. Then even you can say yeah I've done that. Just remember back in the day the only way you had a lift in your home shop was if you lived above the service station. Everything that had to be done under the car was done with jack stands and creepers.

What do ya mean "back in the day" That is still the way I am doing things...... fishslap
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Offline tool hunter

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2017, 10:38:57 AM »
Same here UB, but only when there is no other choice. Its too hard to get down there and get back up.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2017, 11:33:24 AM »
Same here UB, but only when there is no other choice. Its too hard to get down there and get back up.

Yup, each year it gets more punishing too.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #88 on: May 31, 2017, 11:50:52 AM »
Haven't had to lie on the ground once doing this job...that was the goal in buying my lift.  ;)

My grandma always used to say "Don't get old, Clay.  It isn't fun."  The older I get, the truer those words ring.

A little update...engine will come out tonight after I remove the carb, install the lift plate, disconnect the fuel line and make a little room to move the crane around.  Then I can start the cleaning/detailing/painting and shopping list for the jobs that make sense to take care of now.

I also realized that if I do some carb switching I'll be in a better place for the QuadraJet install later this summer.  Lifting that cast iron intake off the engine and moving the new one in is MUCH easier while out of the car! I have a spare 4 bbl intake and carb that needs a rebuild which I was planning on doing a little later.  I don't want to get sidetracked with too many MAWs at this point, and it would be way too easy to keep going down these rabbit holes to the point of not getting the car roadworthy this year.  So for now, the car will have a 2 bbl.

The 350 currently has a "normal" 2 bbl carb, the 260 has a DualJet which is basically a QJet with the secondaries blocked off. The QJet won't bolt onto a 2 bbl intake but the Dual and QuadJets use the same intake.  So I'll install the 4 bbl intake on the 350 and run the DualJet until the QJet is rebuilt.

The task list seems to be growing though:

- degrease/clean engine compartment
- prep/paint core support, upper rad support, exposed frame (which will probably involve removing the grills etc)
- clean/repair/replace wiring.  Some cracked/exposed wires and some just don't look too healthy
- swap intakes/carbs
- thinking I might replace the freeze plugs while the engine's out
- prep/paint the engine
- install Holley aluminum finned valve covers
- re&re Transmission front and rear seals
- replace kickdown cable o-ring
- clean/paint(?) transmission...that might be a little OCD I suppose.
- install new master cylinder
- replace front brake lines with correct disc brake lines
- inspect/bleed brakes
- install engine
- install transmission
- maybe get enough concurrent activity going that the OAI hood will also be ready to install

So yeah...should be on the road by next weekend, right?

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2017, 01:31:33 AM »
And there it was, out!  Certainly a lot easier to lift the engine out as a separate unit.  Of course having the lift and other cheater tools enables this approach...

Lift clearance wasn't as much of a concern this way, and I was able to leave the car on it's tires rather than the lower rims.  On the other hand, the hydraulic part of my engine crane seemed to be acting up somewhat, making me think I should have kept the other one I had.  But it did it's job.

To quote one of our more prolific contributors, now it's time for an adult beverage  wavebeer

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2017, 09:06:15 AM »
Great pics Clay, and you sure do deserve that adult beverage. A very exciting thread. Can't wait for the next chapter.   beerdude

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2017, 12:02:02 PM »
Smashing! BTW: Cool looking old brass fire extinguisher you have up there on the wall cabinet too!
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #92 on: June 01, 2017, 12:20:36 PM »
Smashing! BTW: Cool looking old brass fire extinguisher you have up there on the wall cabinet too!

Thanks UB!  I was told the extinguisher came from an airplane, no idea how accurate that story is, but it's pretty cool.  Pump pressure, gauge and could be dry chem.  I'll snap a better photo of it later.  I've slowly been collecting a few interesting extinguishers...display them all high so nobody thinks they're actual safety equipment!

Great pics Clay, and you sure do deserve that adult beverage. A very exciting thread. Can't wait for the next chapter.   beerdude

Thanks Ray...nice to be posting some project stuff rather than living vicariously through yours!  As always, the project will never be totally finished but I'm definitely looking forward to getting this beast on the road with the upgraded power plant before the end of June.

Offline Muddy

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2017, 12:23:52 PM »
Easier then you thought!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #94 on: June 04, 2017, 06:18:06 PM »
Hmmm...well this was a close call.  Went to remove the leveller from the 350 and noticed this link was wide open.

Leveller is (was) brand new, rated for 1500 lbs.  The 350 is around 500 pounds, the transmission another 100.  So not even half the rated load for this.  Got it from Princess Auto which I believe is Canadian for Harbor Freight...damn chineseum crap of course.

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2017, 06:40:31 PM »
Hmmm...well this was a close call.  Went to remove the leveller from the 350 and noticed this link was wide open.

Leveller is (was) brand new, rated for 1500 lbs.  The 350 is around 500 pounds, the transmission another 100.  So not even half the rated load for this.  Got it from Princess Auto which I believe is Canadian for Harbor Freight...damn chineseum crap of course.

Looks like a good time to replace all of that cheap crap with some quality chain. thumbsup2
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Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #96 on: June 04, 2017, 07:16:30 PM »
Wow -- that could have gone wrong in so many ways. Glad everything is OK

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #97 on: June 04, 2017, 07:40:38 PM »
Hmmm...well this was a close call.  Went to remove the leveller from the 350 and noticed this link was wide open.

Leveller is (was) brand new, rated for 1500 lbs.  The 350 is around 500 pounds, the transmission another 100.  So not even half the rated load for this.  Got it from Princess Auto which I believe is Canadian for Harbor Freight...damn chineseum crap of course.

A few years ago I replaced all of the hardware in my engine hoist with grade 8 quality bolts/nuts/washers. I also replaced the chain and lift hook at the end of the boom.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #98 on: June 04, 2017, 08:23:31 PM »
Glad you didn't get hurt by that crap chain. Maybe someone looking down from above held it together. thumbsup2

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #99 on: June 04, 2017, 09:18:30 PM »
Yeah, I definitely got lucky.  I don't know if it started spreading while lifting the engine/trans together, or when i lifted the engine onto the stand.  I won't be using it again on this job, the intake lift plate works fine when doing the engine on it's own...and I now have a lot more confidence in the lift plate than the leveller!

Hopefully I can get a refund on it, not sure I can find the receipt.  If I get a refund, I won't need to buy another anytime soon...if just an exchange, well I guess it is what it is.  There were just too many things about that particular leveller that I didn't like, and that was before this major failure.

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2017, 08:58:59 AM »
Wow, glad no catastrophes.
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2017, 04:40:37 PM »
Wow, glad no catastrophes.

You and me both, Phil! 

Could have been a disastrophe.

Offline pepi

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2017, 07:34:19 AM »
Good time to do main seals, and any freeze plugs that look questionable. Also the pump seal on the trans.

Two very good suggestions  thumbsup2
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2017, 11:21:47 AM »
Pretty unmotivated week, lots of puttering and not much action, notwithstanding work and family obligations.  I need to spend some time cleaning the work area then come up with a clear plan of attack.

Another lesson learned, though...when you know your torque converter tends to bleed down in storage, make sure you pull it from the transmission and store it flat while the engine/transmission is out of the car.  Loooonnnngggg stream of transmission blood to clean up now.

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2017, 02:46:11 PM »

.........Another lesson learned, though...when you know your torque converter tends to bleed down in storage, make sure you pull it from the transmission and store it flat while the engine/transmission is out of the car.  Loooonnnngggg stream of transmission blood to clean up now.

LOL --- BTDT! , a few times.

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #105 on: June 11, 2017, 02:56:11 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^Certainly not the lone ranger.  While not torque converters, I have had my share of things leak where i laid them lolx
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline brslk

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #106 on: June 11, 2017, 07:38:32 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^Certainly not the lone ranger.  While not torque converters, I have had my share of things leak where i laid them lolx

 :-\  :o   The things you say Phil!
I'm just a guy in a garage with some tools...

Bruce.

Offline Muddy

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #107 on: June 12, 2017, 03:08:20 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^Certainly not the lone ranger.  While not torque converters, I have had my share of things leak where i laid them lolx

 :-\  :o   The things you say Phil!
The way you mind takes the things he says lolx

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2017, 03:54:16 PM »
I'm just a poor innocent sailor, I thought we were talking about oil and ATF.  I was gonna say engines and trannies but I didn't see that going for a good turn for some reason.   O:-)

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2017, 07:13:59 PM »
Only you Bruce lolx

You made me chuckle and shake my head at the same time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well done beerdude
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline scooterfish

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2017, 08:59:21 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^Certainly not the lone ranger.  While not torque converters, I have had my share of things leak where i laid them lolx

 :-\  :o   The things you say Phil!

 :))  :))  :))
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2017, 12:48:20 PM »
I guess it's been a while since I updated y'all...progress has been slow with not much time available to spend on the car, but things are moving along a bit.

- I have too many loose engines and not enough stands so I slapped together a couple red neck engine carts.  Some old wood and a wheel dolly, whoohooo!
- 2bbl intake is off and the valley looks nice and clean.  Had the new 4bbl intake hot tanked and beaded so it's squeaky clean pending installation
- Haven't pulled rockers/lifters yet, not sure I'm going to, but the two cam lobes I can see both look good
- Removed one valve cover so far, again nice and clean in there
- Tried on the NOS Holley valve cover...a bit of bling
- Removed the inner wheel wells to facilitate cleaning and painting
- discovered that what I thought was rust on the back of the core support was just an accumulated coating of red dust (primer from previous bodywork I guess) which cleaned off to reveal good black paint underneath

Offline mrchuck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2017, 01:29:49 PM »
Single exhaust,no cross-over pipe.
Replacement water pump.
cannot suffer fools happily.
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Offline mrchuck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2017, 01:30:29 PM »
Single exhaust,no cross-over pipe.
Replacement water pump.
cannot suffer fools happily.
"Always great to save USA made tools."

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #114 on: July 19, 2017, 09:37:10 AM »
Nice progress.  Glad the motor is looking good inside.  That had to be a relief!!


As far as spare time, man I hear you.  Between helping with my Mom, church groups and helping the wife, I haven't been in the garage much myself.
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline Muddy

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #115 on: July 19, 2017, 10:11:25 AM »
I don't have many things going, but spare time is still hard to find. Motivation is even tougher

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Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #116 on: July 19, 2017, 10:22:55 AM »
I don't have many things going, but spare time is still hard to find. Motivation is even tougher

Sent from the twisted mind of the Mudman.

You think it is bad, wait about twenty or so years and see how motivated you feel!  coffeex
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Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #117 on: August 31, 2017, 05:11:19 PM »
I'm pretty sure I need an update on this!
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #118 on: August 31, 2017, 09:20:21 PM »
I'm pretty sure I need an update on this!

Careful what ya ask for...it's a bit of a shit show at the moment.  I'll fill you in later tonight...

Oh, and it will get better so no worries there!  (And thanks for checking in :-) )

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2017, 12:47:31 PM »
Well, the best laid plans of mice and men as they say...

Tl;dr version - buyer backed out of the deal on my 72, engines still out of the cars, haven't had time, exploring some options.

Novel version:

I wasn't gettung much time to work on the cars and what time i did get was devoted to the local car show i organize. Although my hope had been to have the new car at the show i had come to the realization i wouldn't make it unless i rushed the job. So i decided to take my time and do some MAWs with a goal of being roadworthy un spring 2018. That's still the plan.

The guy I thought was a reliable friend wound up stringing ne along for 9 months saying he was definitely buying it, didn't need the engine, didn't need front seats etc, would pay it off and collw t it in August at our agreed price. Well, he flaked in me so now I need to spend time trying to return the engineless 72 back to roadworthy condition after losing the entire summer for advertising it. Last time I give a friend that opportunity.

So i could put the 260 in the 72...or i could.bolt the 350 back together and put it back in so I wind up back where i was a few months and $$$$ ago.  I looked at a mildly built Olds 350 the other day but it wasn't running. He's going to get it running and if it seema good then I might but it for the 70 for  now and later into my 71.  Or I might spend the winter overhauling one of my 455s and get right to the point.

In the meantime I have slipped a bit and rolled a Beetle i to the working side for dismantling.  Need at least one car outta my way!

On the bright side I scored another complete 455 core, th400 and 5 SS3 rims for a good price and sold the 400 a half hour later for 2/3 the cost of everything!

Told you it was a novel!

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #120 on: September 03, 2017, 12:21:46 AM »
...and that rebuilt street mill is no longer available...the guy decided he didn't want to sell it.  Oh well.

Probably back to plan A, finish the work on that 350 and drop it in.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #121 on: September 06, 2017, 04:42:33 PM »
I'm starting to feel like a ping pong ball on this project  smackmyself

Bolted the 260 and TH350 together last night, going to drop them back into the '72 and hope someone buys the car soon.  No rush on the rest of it for now.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #122 on: September 07, 2017, 01:59:38 AM »
Not too exciting to look at, but I got the 260 and transmission into the '72 tonight.  Did it as one assembly and it went smoothly.  My cherry is broken.

Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #123 on: September 07, 2017, 12:06:33 PM »
Did it as one assembly and it went smoothly. 

Progress is exciting, nice job. Did the BP make it go smoothly?  thumbsup2
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #124 on: September 07, 2017, 12:57:09 PM »
Did it as one assembly and it went smoothly. 

Progress is exciting, nice job. Did the BP make it go smoothly?  thumbsup2

Sometimes the demonstration of your willingness to use force causes inanimate objects to cooperate with you.   :)

The bolt holes in the engine mounts were a tad off, so the BP drove a tapered spike in to get them aligned nicely...so yep, made it go smoother!

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #124 on: September 07, 2017, 12:57:09 PM »