Author Topic: Engine Swaps - out of excuses  (Read 8111 times)

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2017, 09:26:47 AM »
Thanks guys, I think you're both right on the height issue which was my concern as well.  I'm not at the point of no return yet.

I'll move the cars around tonight so I can do the pull off the lift.  The engine/trans haven't been shifted yet, and I do have a clear bay (once I move the '70).  Means a little extra pushing the cars around the yard but that's ok.

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2017, 10:08:15 AM »
If you still have concerns about the height and length needed to pull both the engine and transmission together you can usually pick up a few inches (but not much) by pulling the front wheels and lowering the front of the car just a wee bit. You would not pick up many inches though due to the legs of the picker extending up under the car. That said, sometimes even 1-2 inches can make a world of difference when needed.

Honestly though, I think if the car is simply setting on the floor you should have no problem pulling both the engine and transmission as one. I would strongly consider one of those lift plates that bolts down where the carb usually does that allows for several pick points. If not that one of those load levelers you can change on the fly because you will have a much greater degree of tilt back towards the firewall as you increase height get the clearance needed over the core support.

It might be a good idea to get a fat friend to stand on the back of the hoist to assure things stay firmly planted to the floor once you start working towards the upper limits on your boom. Sometimes it is nice to have a fat friend to lend a hand, or simply just a bunch of ballast/weight! LOL   grinx
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2017, 11:24:50 AM »
I'm not worried about clearance once it's on the ground, just figured the loss of a foot when on the lift would be cutting it way too fine as you observed.  I picked up a new load leveller last Friday, so good to go there.  The simple lifting plate (I have one of those too) doesn't let you adjust the angle of the dangle as I learned on my last engine pull.  The entire front end of the car had been removed for that one though.

It's a good thing I didn't start lifting it last night too...this morning I realized I haven't disconnected the shift linkage yet  billcat

Oh, and I'm usually the fat friend...

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 11:35:07 AM »
I'm not worried about clearance once it's on the ground, just figured the loss of a foot when on the lift would be cutting it way too fine as you observed.  I picked up a new load leveller last Friday, so good to go there.  The simple lifting plate (I have one of those too) doesn't let you adjust the angle of the dangle as I learned on my last engine pull.  The entire front end of the car had been removed for that one though.

It's a good thing I didn't start lifting it last night too...this morning I realized I haven't disconnected the shift linkage yet  billcat

Oh, and I'm usually the fat friend...

I have wanted one of those load levelers for some time myself. Very nice to be able to adjust the angle on the fly and if I was doing the job you are I would not even start the job without one. Sounds like you are set!
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2017, 11:57:07 AM »
I have wanted one of those load levelers for some time myself. Very nice to be able to adjust the angle on the fly and if I was doing the job you are I would not even start the job without one. Sounds like you are set!

I already had one but it only had one chain on each end and no cranking handle.  It was a bit inconvenient and I was concerned the setup would cause the mass to twist diagonally giving poor control.  Rather than chase down new components, new seemed to be the better option.

On that last removal I learned that using a lifting plate hooked to the load leveller was useless...gotta use one or the other and the leveller won't work on a single, central lift point.

Offline nonhog

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2017, 01:18:57 PM »
Lowering air pressure in the tire might help some, ratchet straps pulling spring pressure down might also help but then you cant shift the car which I find I need to often. However since its on the lift you could easily get a few extra inches. If nothing else you can lift it then support the trans while the engine is forward of the firewall making it a breeze to separate.
Be certain the trans is supported well.
You got this, take your time. Speed kills! LOL

 
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Online john k

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2017, 07:36:44 PM »
Take off the front wheels, that will gain you close to six inches. It can sit on the rotors a few days, especially sans engine.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2017, 08:22:58 PM »
Good ideas.  Wheels off might do the trick.

Offline slip knot

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2017, 10:43:42 PM »
I used to keep a set of steel wheels when doing 4X4 engine swaps. no tires just wheels. Really helped out on them. but a car shouldn't be much trouble
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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2017, 10:59:18 PM »
I think pulling the wheels off will get the nose sitting close to where it would be if it was on axle stands, which will help.  Also puts the car at a favourable angle for the extraction.  The engine crane is 92" floor to the bottom of the swivel hook and 99" to the top of the first shackle.  This should work.  Here, hold my beer...

Wish me luck!

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2017, 02:12:34 AM »
Well, I did learn a few things tonight.

- Car can't sit on the rotors without crushing the backing plates.  (No, I didn't crush them)  I had a pair of rims without rubber, so they're bolted up.  That got me about 6"
- With single exhaust, the crossover pipe won't clear the front cross member.  Looks like it needs to be removed, or the exhaust manifolds removed.
- Beer gets warm when forgotten

I'm feeling better about the height factor now, the car's a little lower and a better angle and I removed the swivel hook from the lifting mechanism for another 7" gain.

Now I need to decide how to move forward...

- Remove the crossover pipe (a little worried about shearing the bolts)
- Remove the exhaust manifolds (both).  Again, leary about shearing bolts.  I know...get over it...   Bslap
- Remove the transmission support to see if that lets me rotate the mass enough to clear
- Separate engine/transmission and pull them separately

Offline pepi

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 07:20:15 AM »
 Couple of things to add, altho late to the party. The load leveler is a great piece, hepled me shoe horn the motor into the wife's truck. Litterly down and inch raise the rear of the tail shaft a half inch, in 3 inches, repeat as needed.... cannot beat em.

If you have not cannot tell from the picture, might consider removing the radiator, cross member also if not too difficult, and the grill would be a real plus.

Will allow more forward movement of the block. once it is swinging in the air, adjust the load level, manually lift the tail housing to clear the fender and swing the motor 180, and it's anchors away.

 Personally a lift and is typical of em, eats up more room than the usefulness it provides for limited occasions.

Maybe something above you may find some use for.

PS "The engine crane is 92" floor to the bottom of the swivel hook and 99" to the top of the first shackle. "

 Better rethink that, load leveler takes maybe a foot out of that measurement. Ill hold your beer..

Doing well pulling this off..
Greg
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 07:26:19 AM by pepi »
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Online john k

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2017, 10:04:21 AM »
I'd go ahead and pull the radiatior, and the top bar of the radiator saddle, having more room is always good.   Only on occasion did I have a load leveler, I would use a cable come along to tilt the engine some.   If you do separate the engine from the trans, leave the trans under there, support it at the front with a small chain,  side to side from the frame rails.  Have had engines I pulled the water pump, front pulley, and exhaust manifolds before lifting it out.   If you lose a manifold bolt, its going to be out on the floor anyhow. 

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2017, 10:14:37 AM »
A couple of thoughts on exhaust manifold bolt removal I learned the hard way years ago. Exhaust manifold bolts come out of an engine that is or has been started and ran recently or daily easily in my experience. I don't know for sure how tough removal of exhaust manifold bolts is from engines resting in cars that have been stored inside, perhaps they are not too tough to remove. Exhaust manifold bolt removal from engines in junk yards from vehicles with engines that have been sleeping for Lord only knows how long is night and day different  from removing them from your daily driver. Exhaust manifold bolts are harder bolts. I do not know what degree of hardness they are but I suspect harder than a grade 8.

As for the bolts found downstream in the exhaust system a good impact driver and 6pt sockets are your friend there. Before you bolt everything back up I would suggest using brass nuts on the flange where the exhaust manifolds meet the crossover pipe. I am also a fan of double nutting them as well.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 10:35:00 AM »
I'd go ahead and pull the radiator, and the top bar of the radiator saddle, having more room is always good.   Only on occasion did I have a load leveler, I would use a cable come along to tilt the engine some.   If you do separate the engine from the trans, leave the trans under there, support it at the front with a small chain,  side to side from the frame rails.  Have had engines I pulled the water pump, front pulley, and exhaust manifolds before lifting it out.   If you lose a manifold bolt, its going to be out on the floor anyhow.

I too am a fan of pulling the radiator. I figure that if there is some stupid way to ram the snout of the water pump through the radiator it's a copper riveted cinch that I will get that done!  Besides, like as not I am going to be replacing both the upper and lower hoses as well on reassembly so this is just getting a head start and giving me a bit more elbow room in the process.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 10:35:00 AM »