Author Topic: Fosdick strikes again.  (Read 518 times)

Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Fosdick strikes again.
« on: May 18, 2017, 11:26:28 PM »
the problem with most drill presses is that they don't have back gears  for serious drilling.

Here we needed to make a couple of spacers.   our local steel yard offers custom cutter so all we needed to
do was do the drilling.

Offline jabberwoki

  • Doooh missed out
  • Knows what a screwdriver is
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 5417
  • location: puyallup
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 12:05:16 AM »
Don`t you love those old beasties  :-*
There is a very fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.

Does the need justify the want ? Or does the want suffice?

Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 01:11:04 AM »
Don`t you love those old beasties  :-*


Yep.   think this one likely started in a ship yard.    The drilling table is home made---  you can see it in the photo.      It's a couple lengths of H-beam,  with a  shop cut slotted table top
welded on top.    There are some angle irons welded  such that you can bolt the table to the  T-slots in the base plate if you want.


Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 01:24:16 AM »
 
Don`t you love those old beasties  :-*


Here are the drill speeds for Cast  Iron and steel assuming an HSS drill bit.    note it tells you
to reduce the speeds by half if you are using Carbon steel bits...
 
 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 01:27:39 AM by rvannatta »

Offline slip knot

  • Hunt and peck king
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 4326
  • location: Texas gulf coast
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 12:45:52 PM »
Now that's a drill press!! thumbsup2
Started with nothing and still have most of it left.

When did the American Dream become an entitlement program?

Offline Uncle Buck

  • Site Owner/ Founding Spammer
  • Administrator
  • Knows nut from bolt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12182
  • location: Kansas-Flyover Country!
  • The name of my small shop is the Skunkworks!
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 02:36:26 PM »
Many would be surprised if they knew how many old prehistoric radial drills like that one are still operating in state of the art machine shops (often standing side by side to full CNC machines!) Obviously prized for their abilities in both reach and hole size they remain a fixture in so many machine shops and metal fabrication shops. There are at least three such machines of similar dimensions in the shops of the company where I am employed.

When you work around them enough you sort of forget just how impressive they are to folks that are not around them daily. Very glad this thread is here sharing this information with others.  thumbsup2
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline brslk

  • Can use hammer
  • *********
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 8967
  • location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
  • Lackey and general stooge.
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 03:47:37 PM »
I don't think I have room for one of those.
My wife asked me why a carry a gun in the house. I said "decepticons", she laughed, I laughed and the toaster laughed.
I shot the toaster.

Bruce.

Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 12:29:12 AM »
Many would be surprised if they knew how many old prehistoric radial drills like that one are still operating in state of the art machine shops (often standing side by side to full CNC machines!) Obviously prized for their abilities in both reach and hole size they remain a fixture in so many machine shops and metal fabrication shops. There are at least three such machines of similar dimensions in the shops of the company where I am employed.

When you work around them enough you sort of forget just how impressive they are to folks that are not around them daily. Very glad this thread is here sharing this information with others.  thumbsup2


As I sort of understand the history of manufacturing,   the physical structure for lots of things  was some sort of a Cast  structure   --- Engine block,   transmission case  or numerous other things that might
have had  precision machined pieces rotating  on some bearings.

The process sort of went in this order:  example think transmission case:

 a)Cast   the casing:
  b) Smooth up the flat mating surfaces   (planer  or shaper)
   c) Turn the round areas (Vertical boring machine   or large lathe)
   d)  Drill  a couple dowel holes for lineup on  the flat mating surfaces.
   e)   using the dowel holes  install a  drilling jig  on the mating surface.    Each hole to be made on
             the jig-- is predrilled   for bit clearance   and will have a steel ring  somewhat larger attached to the jig
             In turn the drill bit will have a round steel wheel attached to it with the exact amount of bit sticking out so so the round wheel/guide will bottom when the hole
              reaches the desired depth.    If there are holes to be drilled to different depths  or sizes,  the  guide hole and   guide wheel will be color coded.
              Now you can attach  the casting to the base plate of the  arm drill  and use an apprentice  drill operator
              to use the red bits in the red holes and the blue bits in the blue holes of the jig   etc., and even if the operator isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer have the holes come out the right size, the right depth
              and in the right place.

    f) the  Long arm and high clearance is what makes this all possible.    Lock the casting down,   and the drill head will run in and out on the arm several feet  and swing left and right as needed

        g) obviously the next level of automation is to have a 'jumbo'   where you have  'n' number of drill bits all turning at the same time and you drill all the holes on a surface at the same time.  but so far as I know
this   arm drill solution has been around most or all of the 20 century.

       h)   Like most Pre-WWII machine tools, this drill was made with the assumption that it would be powered by a belt drive  from a shaft in the ceiling.   Speeds are obtained by what a lathe operator would
call a 'quick change' box on the floor behind the machine,   and then by a set of "back gears"  in the drive head provide   a  high, low and direct speeds.

the made these things of various sizes---  this is actually a relatively small one or at least an intermidiate sized one.--- a 3 foot travel and arm  I think-- which is usual way of sizing arm drills.


for the bigger jobs   I also have a 60 inch    ATW   arm drill:     It's not that  I really need both but I got it first and its in pretty rough  mechancial condition,  and I got a chance at this little
3 footers   in excellent condition mostly   for hauling it off  --- which was quite a challenge   (It was in a back yard  of a hill side  house and a garage had been built in the way since the drill was put there....

but just in case you want to see a larger drill  here goes


OH yes.   these drills are balanced with a heavy enough floor plate that you can swing the arm  around to the side   (it a T-shaped base plate)   so if you can't get enough vertical clearance
you can swing the arm around  and did a hole in the floor/ground as may be necessary.







Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2017, 12:37:06 AM »
I don't think I have room for one of those.

Actually space is less of a problem than you think.   If you get a tall crane you can swing it over the garage and lower it rapidly.     IT will find its own space in the garage, and you need only patch the roof.

But there is a reason I set it up very close to the door of my shop.---   my service truck crane would reach that far from parked outside.

Also if you want to drill steel girders---   It's handy to handle them outside with a fork lift , and just stick the portion to be drilled in the shop.

Online gtermini

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 590
  • location: Amity, OR
    • Imgur Picture Dump
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2017, 11:51:25 PM »
That old school description of machining castings left out the most important first step, which was painting them with a healthy coat of Glyptal Red paint to tie all the suck casting sand up and keep it out of the bearings later. A side effect was the cool color and slick surface that shed oil.

Radials are hand SOB's. I use the 3ft X 9" col Carlton at work a bit on bigger stuff, and parts the mag drill won't stick to. If you can get it under the arm, you can drill it. Swinging the arm makes me nervous if the machine isn't bolted down. They have a high center of gravity, and aren't immune to toppling over.



Edge drilling and blind tapping ~250 1/2" holes




Greyson

Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 03:14:06 AM »
That old school description of machining castings left out the most important first step, which was painting them with a healthy coat of Glyptal Red paint to tie all the suck casting sand up and keep it out of the bearings later. A side effect was the cool color and slick surface that shed oil.

Radials are hand SOB's. I use the 3ft X 9" col Carlton at work a bit on bigger stuff, and parts the mag drill won't stick to. If you can get it under the arm, you can drill it. Swinging the arm makes me nervous if the machine isn't bolted down. They have a high center of gravity, and aren't immune to toppling over.



Edge drilling and blind tapping ~250 1/2" holes

Greyson


can't quibble about stability issues--- but in part that depends on the base plate.    some models of the drills had a base plate that was fairly narrow, and I wonder how those ever stood up if not bolted down
but others had a  T shaped plate   ---- with the width  abouat as wide as it was long  ---with the wide part to the back by post.      Indeed both drills I have  are equipped that with sort of  base plate
with a multi speed transmission sitting on the base plate out beside the vertical  post on one side,----    and a coolant collector tank cast into the  base plate on the other side.

I've looked at those models with a recatangular base plate with the transmission  behind the post instead of beside it   and I"ve wondered  what if anything kept them right side up.  --- but they did have good
bolt down phalanges

Online gtermini

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 590
  • location: Amity, OR
    • Imgur Picture Dump
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 11:34:32 AM »
Carltons and some others had an option that bolted another base plate at a right angle to the primary one for additional clamping room and floor stability. A very nice option if one could be scrounged up.





Carlton also had a half circle base for the ultimate in fixturing.



Having the motor hanging opposite the drill head sure makes for a nice balance. Most old radials swing with the push of a single finger.

Greyson

Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 10:57:13 AM »
Carltons and some others had an option that bolted another base plate at a right angle to the primary one for additional clamping room and floor stability. A very nice option if one could be scrounged up.


Carlton also had a half circle base for the ultimate in fixturing.



Having the motor hanging opposite the drill head sure makes for a nice balance. Most old radials swing with the push of a single finger.

Greyson


How fitting or a guy to lives near the town of Carlton   to have a photo of a  Carlton   drill.     Our very first bulldozer went through Carlton   (a former mill town of a few hundred people)   Oregon.
It spent it's first life  working as a farm Cat in  Idaho,  but after the war  they were hauled out to Western oregon and  blades, winches and guards added to make them logging machines.




Online gtermini

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 590
  • location: Amity, OR
    • Imgur Picture Dump
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 11:23:52 AM »
Speaking of that area, there's a nutcase in Gaston in the old seed elevator that has a jones for giant machine tools. I remember seeing the huge radial drill sitting out in the ding weeds next to a monster lathe and planer. I'm not sure if they went away to scrap or that the briars have grown up over them to where you can't spot them from the road. The drill must have had a 21" column and been 15 ft tall.

It's amazing how much heavy equipment was made in small cottage industry shops around here. My oil salesman worked for Franklin Inc in Independence, OR building log skidders way before any of the big brands had skin in the game. There were small horizontal milling machines built in Sheridan, OR by a company named Industro-Lite. And those are just the first two to pop into my head.

Greyson

Offline rvannatta

  • Super Hero
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1635
  • location: Rainier, OR
    • Van Natta Forestry
Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 09:19:51 PM »
Speaking of that area, there's a nutcase in Gaston in the old seed elevator that has a jones for giant machine tools. I remember seeing the huge radial drill sitting out in the ding weeds next to a monster lathe and planer. I'm not sure if they went away to scrap or that the briars have grown up over them to where you can't spot them from the road. The drill must have had a 21" column and been 15 ft tall.

It's amazing how much heavy equipment was made in small cottage industry shops around here. My oil salesman worked for Franklin Inc in Independence, OR building log skidders way before any of the big brands had skin in the game. There were small horizontal milling machines built in Sheridan, OR by a company named Industro-Lite. And those are just the first two to pop into my head.

Greyson

I'm quite familar  with franklin...   a tour of their factory is where I saw arm drills   'pattern drilling castings'.     The making stuff  for the timber industry in Independence goes back to  Gerlinger who made
straddle carriers  for lumber bundles...       Long before forklifts were around that     IT was like a long legged tractor---that you could drive right over  a bundle of lumber  (hence the name straddle).. the early ones
(before hydraulics)   then had a ratchet jack that let you clamp on the sides and down to the bottom of the lumber bundle, and ultimately pick it up a  few inches.

My father  told of his experience as a receiver of a sawmill.  IT seems that in the Depression a sawmill went under in Columbia City and he was appointed receiver, with the assigned task of wringing some money
out of the operation for the benefit of creditors.  He found the mill operable,  but the wharf was in such poor condition as to be unusable,   and the lumber had to go out by 'lumber schooner'-------relatiavely small
sailing ships that worked up and down the coast,   calling on  sawmills,  and hauling lumber to market   -- usually San Francisco.   

To get his lumber shipped,  he ended up making a deal with the sawmill in the other end of town  (half a mile away) to use their wharf.   He got the lumber to the ship by using a number of straddle carriers that
would grab a bundle and just drive down mainstreet to the other end of town. to deliver it to the ship.   they were quite stable and moved right along so as to not annoy the city fathers 'too much'.

As for the dozer blades in Carlton,  I remembered the name of the outfit  "Wallace blade".     Their shop is still there.    IT's the lot with a number of old crawlers, and an equal number of   Evergreen Blackberry bushes
on the South end of Carlton.

I am familar with the hillside of   misc equip  south of Gaston  I hadn't specificially noticed  machine tools there   but you can't see it all and stay on the road while driving by.

The Garage Gazette

Re: Fosdick strikes again.
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 09:19:51 PM »

Tags: