Author Topic: What happened to factory paint jobs?  (Read 10112 times)

Offline m_fumich

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What happened to factory paint jobs?
« on: October 27, 2013, 01:58:09 PM »
Why do auto fininshes peel like this?



This didn't start happening until the mid to late 80's. What changed? If I have my car professionally sprayed, will the new finish do the same? Can I fix this without doing the whole car?
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Offline john k

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 08:04:13 PM »
The paint is not whats peeling.   It is the clear coat on top.  It is what gives the finish that shine.  Sunlight does it in, sooner or later, a lot sooner if it is silver.   

Offline m_fumich

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 09:33:54 PM »
I realize it's the clear coat but it's part of the overall paint job. Cars from the early 80's and earlier didn't do that. I've never seen a 60's or 70's car with peeling clear coat. Something obviously changed in the late 80's.
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Offline slip knot

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 09:43:22 PM »
Prior to the mid  to late 80s cars were just painted with enamel and not basecoat/clearcoat. They didn't peel as much, just faded out.
Started with nothing and still have most of it left.

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Offline brslk

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 11:52:47 PM »
Can't really tell from the pic but it looks like classic Chrysler paint peeling.
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Offline m_fumich

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 12:01:06 AM »
The pic is my '03 PT Cruiser but Ford Taurus's have always had this problem.
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Offline Conductor562

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 12:21:56 AM »
Growing up my dad had a friend that worked at the state penn in the 70's when they made license plates. He said they kept getting complaints from the DMV of paint fading and pretty much washing off. He said they changed paint suppliers 2 or 3 times but it didn't get any better. After awhile they discovered that all the inmates were taking a piss in the paint which did something to the pigments and caused them to fade. I can't say this story is true, but that's the story.

Maybe someone decided to piss on Chrysler  lolx
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Offline dawg

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 07:15:53 PM »
Why do auto fininshes peel like this? . . .

This didn't start happening until the mid to late 80's. What changed? If I have my car professionally sprayed, will the new finish do the same? Can I fix this without doing the whole car?

I'm not an expert painter but I have been learning about two-stage paint and have successfully used it on one of my cars.

Two-stage urethane is what you are referring to. One of the key features of two-stage urethane is it will dry quickly, but it is MOST important to spray the final clear coat before 24-hours has elapsed and the base coat completely dries. Also, you must use the proper temperature "reducer" (aka thinner). If you don't use the proper reducer then the paint can dry too quickly and therefore the clear coat is just laid on top the base coat. It will eventually start peeling in that case.

However, when it is done right, then it is the best paint job you can have because the clear and base coat become like a single tough protective layer of paint.

Steve
 

Offline scottg

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2013, 08:13:23 PM »
Yeee haw, Steve, Lookit that gloss!
  You really are a dooowg!  beerdude
Man that's pretty.  beerdude

 Part of the thing with factory paint is that pigment went ballistic. But clear was still relatively cheap.
(Not sure how it is now, this was a few years ago last I looked). 

 With pigment colored paint at $2 or 300 a gallon and more, and clear less than 1/4 of that?
  It was just a kiss of colored paint, and lots of clear over top.
    yours Scott
     

Offline dawg

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2013, 08:40:32 PM »
Thanks Scott! Yeah paint prices are very high and I've been using one of the best, PPG. Some people say the cheap stuff doesn't flow as well as better quality stuff.

Steve

Offline Centerpunch

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 09:28:11 PM »
Growing up my dad had a friend that worked at the state penn in the 70's when they made license plates. He said they kept getting complaints from the DMV of paint fading and pretty much washing off. He said they changed paint suppliers 2 or 3 times but it didn't get any better. After awhile they discovered that all the inmates were taking a piss in the paint which did something to the pigments and caused them to fade. I can't say this story is true, but that's the story.

Maybe someone decided to piss on Chrysler  lolx


I am going to use that story next time I see a friend who knows a great deal about cars or at least is interested in them, as I laughed quite hard at that.

Any chance of that being true though?


Offline Conductor562

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2013, 10:43:41 AM »
Growing up my dad had a friend that worked at the state penn in the 70's when they made license plates. He said they kept getting complaints from the DMV of paint fading and pretty much washing off. He said they changed paint suppliers 2 or 3 times but it didn't get any better. After awhile they discovered that all the inmates were taking a piss in the paint which did something to the pigments and caused them to fade. I can't say this story is true, but that's the story.

Maybe someone decided to piss on Chrysler  lolx


I am going to use that story next time I see a friend who knows a great deal about cars or at least is interested in them, as I laughed quite hard at that.

Any chance of that being true though?

He always purported it as the truth, and it seems plausible.
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Offline Centerpunch

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2013, 10:46:04 AM »
Well I guess anything is possible in that type of enviroment. 

Offline m_fumich

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2013, 11:02:32 AM »
OK, so what's causing all this pealing clear coat on cars since the late 80's? Improper paint job? Clear coat too thick? What was different about the paint jobs before that?
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Offline dawg

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2013, 11:36:53 AM »
OK, so what's causing all this pealing clear coat on cars since the late 80's? Improper paint job? Clear coat too thick? What was different about the paint jobs before that?

Like I said above, it is the improper use of two-stage urethane paint. I think Scott is right about them using just a wisp of base coat (color) and then using a lot of clear. What that does is the "wisp" of paint dries too fast before getting the clear coat in time to bond with the base coat. In proper use both the base coat and clear coat are supposed to bond together as one single coat of paint. You can only do that when the base coat has not completely dried yet.

Prior to that they used others such as lacquer, acrylic lacquer, enamel, acrylic enamel, maybe more, all in single stage uses. The main problem with those were usually fading in the sun after a few years. Enamel is still pretty good stuff though, if you're budget minded.

Steve
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 11:51:27 AM by dawg »

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Re: What happened to factory paint jobs?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2013, 11:36:53 AM »