Author Topic: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600  (Read 19500 times)

Offline lbgradwell

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - HD Big Blue unknown model and HP
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2013, 03:01:28 PM »
I am calling Go-Blue! a 1 H.P. grinder, possibly Model: 257.191600 [Commercial 'Crown Top']. I want to get a 2nd opinion, hopefully Brian Kachadurian of OWWM.org has more information now. Earlier this month he said: "I think your blue grinder is the last of the Delco built machines, model number 397.19450."

Take this with a grain of salt (as I really don't know), but I'd wager that whatever label was originally on Go-Blue!, I think it is an Allegretti Company design. That distinctive switch almost requires it.

Delco may very well have continued producing the Allegretti design...

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - HD Big Blue unknown model and HP
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2013, 08:24:39 PM »
... I think it is an Allegretti Company design. That distinctive switch almost requires it.

Delco may very well have continued producing the Allegretti design...

I'm not an expert, but the reason I'm thinking it is a 1 H.P. grinder, possibly Model: 257.191600, is the numbers [casting, relay, capacitor, bearings, coil windings and wiring] match with this 1 H.P. grinder.
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Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2013, 11:15:26 PM »
I decided to open up the relay to check & clean the contacts, and more importantly verify the mechanization reflects the measurements I made with a DMM.



A member of the OWWM site said the relay is a "potential relay that kicks out (opens terminals 2-4) when the motor reaches 2/3 or so of the running RPM, consequently deenergizing the capacitor". AND "Portion of the voltage across the start winding brought out by wires 31 and 34 (GRN-BRN) is applied to the relay coil terminals 3-4. When that voltage rises it energizes the relay causing the contacts to open. Therefore wire 31 (GRN) taps into the start winding to provide suitable voltage for the relay coil. The contacts should be NC to energize the start winding when at rest, i.e., with no voltage on the relay coil. If you can get to the inside of the relay check for corrosion on the contacts and clean/polish them with 600 grit emery cloth."


I removed the cover by bending the mounting bracket slightly to unscrew it, because the screw head was not turning - it was 'cemented' in place.


Here is a drawing of the internals.


Terminal #2 pulls out of the relay body; revealing some need of cleaning/burnishing.


Burnished and cleaned. (Out of actual sequence, this shot shows the movable contacts already cleaned and back in place)


Removal of contact arm pull-down spring. This keeps the points open without power (Normally Open NO).


Contact arm removed, showing both points need cleaning. Not bad at all though.
When power is applied, the RH contact arm is pulled down by the field of the relay-coil, rotating on the arm on the 2 nylon pins, raising the LH of the contact arm. When the LH raises, the points of terminals #2 and #4 close.


Reverse side of contact arm, showing pin and spring between arm and bottom of pin.


Close up of terminal #2 points (NO).




The screw head and terminal labels received a dab of red and clear nail polish, respectively, to secure them.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 11:37:31 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2013, 09:57:20 AM »
Voltage test set-up.




For more discussion on the relay and replacement cross-reference, follow this link. http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=136267&p=915693#p915693
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2013, 04:19:46 PM »
I received a piece of friendly and good advice on the OWWM  Everything Electrical forum. In the even the relay or centrifugal switch contacts stick, a slow-blow fuse will OPEN, protecting the grinder/wiring.

I am going to add a slow-blow fuse before the ON/OFF switch. The writer advises 10 - 12 Amps for this 1 H.P. grinder.

I picked up a pack of Buss glass slow-blow 10 amp fuses and a panel mounted holder like the one below.


I have drilled and filed 'D' shaped holes before, not accurate/pretty and I can't spend the $$ for the proper chassis punch.

So, I looked on OWWM and on Google for another way to make the 'D' shaped hole in the back of the cover, without much success.

The large diameter is ~ 0.5".

Does any one have a 'trick' they'd care to share?

Thanks.

Mike
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2014, 11:58:20 PM »
The hole is drilled to fit, a small dab of epoxy to keep the washers and holder from twisting.

Pig-tails are soldered to the holder, solder-less connectors allow dis-assembly. The Hot leg (1) of the power cord is cut and the fuse holder is spliced in-line. See yellow circled area below.

Next time the mounting location will be about 1/4" lower to give more clearance of the internal casting rib.

Several OEM 90-terminals that were wrapped in self fusing silicone are replaced because the wrap was becoming loose.


View of external location with 15 Amp glass fuses.


This big boy ate up and spit out that 15 Amp fuse. A ceramic slow-blow 15 Amp, as specified on the label, keeps it running.  billcat


Edited 14Mar29 - Forgot to show the reason to add a fuse. If a Start-Up Sw or Relay malfunctions, the fuse will prevent the following terminal condition. Excessive current draw and motor over temperature. I suspect that's what happened in the 3 pictures below, but the current owner hasn't been able to confim or test.

The fuse is cheap insurance that I will add to all my grinders.




Anyway, here it is in the latest stage.






It's making nice whirring noises and pushing a lot of air around the bench.


Possible changes - tool rests like other Commercial Block grinders, add a vintage goose neck lamp [not a CM].

Go-Blue!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 09:25:25 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline softailgarage

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2014, 03:51:44 PM »
Man Mike, You've gone into a lot more detail over here, I need to hang out more. Nice job on the grinder.
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Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2014, 08:58:44 PM »
... tail,

Thanks!

Good to see you here on the 'dark side'!  :mr:

Back at GJ, I don't advertise I am active here. I have heard that can get your post removed, thread locked, or you suspended/banned (?).

Any way, you may recognize some GJers here. Seems we see GJ people from time to time discover us.

I like it here because along with having a depth of technical knowledge, people are helpful, positive, and friendly.

BTW - what CM tool used your avatar?   thumbsup2
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2014, 06:24:10 PM »
Here's a shot of Go-Blue! in the growing grinder line-up.



It's getting used more and more, now that I am retired.  th-smile
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Online Uncle Buck

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2014, 12:04:33 AM »
The hole is drilled to fit, a small dab of epoxy to keep the washers and holder from twisting.

Pig-tails are soldered to the holder, solder-less connectors allow dis-assembly. The Hot leg (1) of the power cord is cut and the fuse holder is spliced in-line. See yellow circled area below.

Next time the mounting location will be about 1/4" lower to give more clearance of the internal casting rib.

Several OEM 90-terminals that were wrapped in self fusing silicone are replaced because the wrap was becoming loose.


View of external location with 15 Amp glass fuses.


This big boy ate up and spit out that 15 Amp fuse. A ceramic slow-blow 15 Amp, as specified on the label, keeps it running.  billcat


Edited 14Mar29 - Forgot to show the reason to add a fuse. If a Start-Up Sw or Relay malfunctions, the fuse will prevent the following terminal condition. Excessive current draw and motor over temperature. I suspect that's what happened in the 3 pictures below, but the current owner hasn't been able to confim or test.

The fuse is cheap insurance that I will add to all my grinders.




Anyway, here it is in the latest stage.






It's making nice whirring noises and pushing a lot of air around the bench.


Possible changes - tool rests like other Commercial Block grinders, add a vintage goose neck lamp [not a CM].

Go-Blue!




I don't suppose you have any extra tool posts for grinders like the one pictured do you? I need one side or the other, but forget which side. I need the 2 piece type like I see here.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



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Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2014, 09:51:27 AM »
UB Those are on 'loan' from some other Block waiting it's turn.

I presently don't have any I am parting-out, but I'll start a list and put you at the top. I am working towards 'thinning the heard' as it were, and may have what you are looking for.

Also, I'm in talks about a 1/2 HP Block model 397.19460 for parts; but, alas it too is missing both tool rests. angryguyx

Now, excuse me while I go start another list.  fishslap

Back with that list.


I should've put the 3-piece tools rests I'm looking for!  :groaner:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 10:13:14 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - HD Big Blue unknown model and HP
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2015, 08:16:17 PM »

The contacts cleaned up, and I got to use the diamond tipped terminal tool, A spray of Deoxit D5 removed any corrosion left and lubricated the contacts.




You know, a cheap mans equivalent to this is used emory boards. I snag them from the wife when she's done using them on her nails and before she tosses them. They still have useable grit, and can be ground down to narrow ends with a dremel tool.

I use them for sanding small parts, or things in tight spots, or contactor contacts if I don't have the right replacement and I'm out in the boonies. FYI.

Offline jabberwoki

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2015, 11:57:18 PM »
Man that`s just too nice to use. Fantastic job thumbsup2
There is a very fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.

Does the need justify the want ? Or does the want suffice?

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2015, 10:40:05 PM »
Thanks man.

It's not used often, but that bad boy earns it's living when heavy wire wheeling is called for.  th-smile
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

The Garage Gazette

Re: Block Grinder rescue - UPDATE: Go-Blue! 1 H.P. Model 257.191600
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2015, 10:40:05 PM »

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