Author Topic: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -  (Read 53584 times)

Offline goodfellow

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Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« on: May 19, 2011, 03:11:16 PM »
This section is dedicated to the restoration, use, and maintenance of the classic Craftsman bench grinders that were manufactured for Sears by Paramount/Allegretti & Co. from the early 1960's to early 1980's. Affectionately known as "Block Motor" grinders because of their unique shape, these power tools have developed a large following among shop enthusiasts because of their legendary reliability, accuracy, and power.

The "Block Motor" grinder can be readily identified by the Sears manufacturer prefix of 397 or 257 (as in 397.XXXXX); which is stamped on the front label. Popular models include 1/4HP, 1/3HP, 1/2HP, 3/4HP, and 1.0HP Industrial units.

Relevant threads to Block Motor grinder restorations and tips are listed below.

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=4919.msg66926#msg66926 ("torqueman2002's" excellent and comprehensive resto of a 3/4HP unit)

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=4659.msg69684#msg69684 ("atlinwi202's" wonderful resto of a 3/4HP unit that was in very rough shape)

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=4135.msg55745#msg55745 ("goodfellow's" resto of a 1/2HP unit)

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=4162.0 (making a sheetmetal end-cover for a block motor grinder wheel guard)

Do you need a belt grinder attachment for your Craftsman Block Motor bench grinder? Click the link to find a simple DIY solution

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=20445.0

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 04:10:55 PM by goodfellow »

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2011, 02:43:11 PM »
Here are two of mine. The first grinder is a 1/2hp version that came to me in remarkably good condition. Many guys would have done nothing to it and just ran it as it was. I wanted mine to look near new so I decided to repaint mine. I did not document my rebuild, but I will describe it as follows. I removed the wheel  guards, stones, and covers first. Next I removed the screws securing the silver panel in the center and the wire leads that went to the switch. I never entirely removed the light or center cover, but instead chose to lay them aside the grinder as far as I could and cover these items before painting the machine (less guards) I really cleaned the old guards on the inside as best I could then set them aside. I did little in the way of prep work to the surface of the grinder because as I said its finish was just that good.

I bought one or two cans of Rust-O-Leum Hammered grey spray paint and after hitting one or two rough spots I sprayed all the grey color with several coats of the paint. I then followed this by doing the same thing with the wheel guards and end covers. Following this I covered all of the freshly painted grey areas of the machine and addressed the center silver panel. I masked off the original (damaged) label with masking tape and sprayed the center cover with silver (I think I just used regular silver spray paint for that part.

After everything dried, I reassembled the grinder and mounted it to the bench as you now see it in the pictures below. The machine is still missing the right tool rest and I will need to replicate that one of these days when I get the time, but for now I simply fitted the right side with an old work rest from another grinder I had in the shop. Unfortunately mine did not come with the cooling tray that usually is mounted front and center of the machine, perhaps some day I will luck out and find one. I bought this machine about a year ago and paid $45 for it. The machine needs new 7" wheels which I will likely have to order due to the odd size, so for now it has the wheels it came with.




Next is the grinder that the above machine replaced. The machine below is only a 1/4 HP grinder, but it is surprisingly stout for its low HP rating. In fact, I believe this machine is every bit as stout as the 1/2HP grinder that was but a few years old that it replaced! By no means the animal of the 1/2HP machines and larger such as the one pictured above, or other higher HP machines you will find in this thread, but very respectable nevertheless. In fact, had I not run across the higher HP machine above to replace it, no doubt it would still be in use as my primary bench grinder. If you should encounter one of these grinders in the 1/4HP version and do not have one of these early models yet I would strongly encourage you to buy it and continue looking for a heavier machine as I did. I know you would not be disappointed.

I did no cleanup painting etc on this machine at all. The only thing I did was remove the center silver cover and hammer out a dent that was in the back side of the cover. I paid nothing for this machine, a generous co-worker simply gave it to me. It looks just as it did the day I got it minus the dent in the cover.



« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 07:14:18 PM by Uncle Buck »
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 12:53:47 PM »
Here are two of mine.


UB - gotta say thanks for sharing. I was inspired and found a block grinder on CL in Detroit Metro.

I've found this March 1990 Popular Mechanics article: "Bench Grinder Basics". http://tinyurl.com/79k26ma

It's a nice primer for the beginner and I got just enough information on Buffing Wheels and Compounds, to realize this is a whole science in it's self.

Also, here is a link to Craftsman OEM codes: http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1

edited Feb 04, 2012. Inserted a Tiny URL.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 10:19:23 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

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Offline atlinwi202

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 11:35:12 PM »
Thanks for putting this all together Ray! thumbsup2
-Andy

Offline Bob51

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 01:54:32 PM »
My first post; bringing this thread back to ask some questions; I've never owned a bench grinder so excuse my ignorance.  I found a 1/2 HP block motor craftsman for sale, they asking price is 75, from the one photo they sent me it looks like it sat in someone's garage or basement for ?40 years with very little use, just some surface corrosion mostly on the light socket thingy.  They say it runs fine.  Any thoughts, should I grab it?

I really need something to use for buffing, dumb question; is there any way to hook up a variable power switch of some sort to get these grinders to run slower without damaging the motor?

Thanks

Offline chevytrux53

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 07:27:19 PM »
75 sounds pretty high to me, offer a lower number and see what they say, it cant hurt.
Sorry no clever saying, I just love old cars and machines, so if you want to talk about that stuff, drop me a line.

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 08:27:49 PM »
Welcome Bob51 -- $75 is within reason for a pristine model. These things are starting to get pricey; mainly because our own "tourqueman2002" has been buying them all, and driving up the prices on the entire east coast -- LOL  ;)

Seriously though, the prices are rising and you're "in the ballpark" with that $75.

As for changing the speed, that's not an option in these grinders, unless you want to get into some very expensive electronic changes (not worth it for these old warhorses). For buffing they aren't that great because the arbors don't extend very far. A good buffer will have extended arbors so that you can easily maneuver the parts on the buffing pad.

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2012, 08:51:37 PM »
For $75 you will not likely find a better grinder for the money, certainly not new anyway. The only thing you might find better for that amount would have to show up used. If you have no grinder and want one that will not disappoint then absolutely try to strike a better deal, but go ahead and buy it assuming all the parts are there, wheel covers, work rests etc.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline Frederick Flintstone

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 09:35:56 PM »
What are the years of the round top block grinder VS the more squarish ones? IMO the rounder ones look better.
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Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 10:16:10 PM »
What are the years of the round top block grinder VS the more squarish ones? IMO the rounder ones look better.

I do not know right off the top of my head, but I know the round topped ones came before the square shaped ones.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2012, 10:43:39 PM »
What are the years of the round top block grinder VS the more squarish ones? IMO the rounder ones look better.


Is this the style?
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=6053.msg82011#msg82011

If it is, maybe searching this link to Craftsman OEM codes will help: http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1

And goodfellow - I'm cured, I haven't bought a block grinder for months now. Hey, I even gave 2 away to my brother back East. Call me the 'Johnny Apple Seed of Block Grinders' even!

I will not look for grinders, I will not search CL for grinders, I will give grinders to the needy, .....   panicx
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2012, 10:50:25 AM »
What are the years of the round top block grinder VS the more squarish ones? IMO the rounder ones look better.

A point of clarification. Sears sold many "block motor" designed grinders from several manufacturers, but the block design must be considered secondary. Of primary concern is the manufacturer. The best engineered, most durable, and desirable "Block Motor" grinders were made by Paramount/Allegretti & Co. These grinders have the 397 or 257 serial number prefixes.

Overall, the "Block Motor" designs were also made by Rixon, Royal, and B&D -- just to name a few. These grinders do not have the higher quality field windings and castings that the Paramount/Allegretti units had.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2012, 11:29:43 AM »
The best engineered, most durable, and desirable "Block Motor" grinders were made by Paramount/Allegretti & Co. These grinders have the 397 or 257 serial number prefixes.

Good point gf. He doesn't want to make the mistake I did on my first purchase of a CM grinder - 1/3HP model: 115.7566. Turns out it was a pre 397 /257 series.

Once I discovered my error the quest was on and I was hooked. Since then, as alluded to, I've acquired the 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 (x2), and 1 HP series 397 grinders in various stages of completeness and  types of condition. The best condition were the 1/4 and 1/3 HP ones; now with my brother back East.

Best of luck. BTW - saw some listed in Detroit CL this morning.  frustratedx
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Frederick Flintstone

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2012, 01:52:50 AM »
What are the years of the round top block grinder VS the more squarish ones? IMO the rounder ones look better.

A point of clarification. Sears sold many "block motor" designed grinders from several manufacturers, but the block design must be considered secondary. Of primary concern is the manufacturer. The best engineered, most durable, and desirable "Block Motor" grinders were made by Paramount/Allegretti & Co. These grinders have the 397 or 257 serial number prefixes.

Overall, the "Block Motor" designs were also made by Rixon, Royal, and B&D -- just to name a few. These grinders do not have the higher quality field windings and castings that the Paramount/Allegretti units had.

AH! I SEE! now I know what to look for. and torqueman you can scour CL for me and pick up a 3/4 HP for your "freind"

after a quick scan of my pictures, only one is a good enough one to read the modle # fourtunatly my 1/2 is a #397, whoo hoo!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:58:21 AM by fflintstone »
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Offline Frederick Flintstone

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2012, 11:21:05 PM »
well I consider myself lucky all three of my Craftsman bench grinders have the 397 prefix!
now I need to find a 3/4 HP version.
torqueman keep looking!
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
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Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 04:32:17 PM »
now I need to find a 3/4 HP version.
torqueman keep looking!
Everyday  grinx
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 10:10:57 PM »
well I consider myself lucky all three of my Craftsman bench grinders have the 397 prefix!
now I need to find a 3/4 HP version.
torqueman keep looking!


Can I interest you in a 1 HP?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230758881192
Nice condition and complete; but pricey. Too far for me to travel for local pick-up!
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2012, 01:19:27 PM »
now I need to find a 3/4 HP version.
torqueman keep looking!

Everyday  grinx


I knew I'd find something for you eventually. It's a 3/4HP like you're looking for and with a stand; but alas, no pictures.
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/tls/2935755004.html

A little pricey; best of luck.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline mrchuck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 07:30:24 PM »
I just bought a vintage Craftsman 1/2 hp block grinder.
It has a problem is the reason I bought it cheap. A factory stand came with it. Bent pipe stand.

The problem is that the shaft for the right side is bent severely!! about 20 degrees worth. There is no wheel on it.
I have dis-assembled it and have stopped because I can't get the case to split apart.
Using a vise to try and straighten it did not help either.

So, any way to straighten it? I have a electric motor shop here in town, and I can take it over to them and get their opinion. A new shaft maybe needed,
On the bottom of the sheet metal plate is the date,,  August 19 1979.

Any help will be appreciated.   I paid 25 dollars for it.
cannot suffer fools happily.
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Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 08:37:38 PM »
... I can't get the case to split apart.
The ones I have disassembled came apart with a few gentle taps with a soft blow hammer; after the through bolts/nuts had been removed.

Find your way over to OWWM.com and search for a parts/operator/owner manual, to use as a guide.

Post up some pictures with a close up showing the label w/ model number.

Good luck with the shaft, I've never attempted straightening one.

And if it can't be straightened - at $25, you can get your investment back by parting it out. I am looking for a cover for the right wheel guard; 1/2 HP just so happens.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline mtkst19

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2012, 01:34:18 AM »
thanks for this thread.  i picked up my 2nd block grinder today for $20 off c-list to replace my clarke china one.  my 1st one i paid $50 for and it was literally brand new in the box. i cut off the sticker label that was on the box and kept it.  Ill try to get it scanned/uploaded or take a pic of it. 

my original one has a red rocker switch like what is found on newer delta shop equipment but w/o the annoying safety button.  i wanna say it has 6.5amp motor.  the one i bought today-- it has a regular toggle on/off w/ 5.5 amp motor.      With that said, ill have to get pictures of them in the shop.  i would think my 1st purchased grinder is a newer version of what i bought today.  funny thing is none of them look like the ones linked in this thread. 

Offline atlinwi202

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2012, 11:09:17 PM »
thanks for this thread.  i picked up my 2nd block grinder today for $20 off c-list to replace my clarke china one.  my 1st one i paid $50 for and it was literally brand new in the box. i cut off the sticker label that was on the box and kept it.  Ill try to get it scanned/uploaded or take a pic of it. 

my original one has a red rocker switch like what is found on newer delta shop equipment but w/o the annoying safety button.  i wanna say it has 6.5amp motor.  the one i bought today-- it has a regular toggle on/off w/ 5.5 amp motor.      With that said, ill have to get pictures of them in the shop.  i would think my 1st purchased grinder is a newer version of what i bought today.  funny thing is none of them look like the ones linked in this thread.

Need Pics!
-Andy

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2012, 10:23:10 AM »
I noticed differences in a couple of block grinders when I put them side by side.

1 HP (model: 257.191600)


3/4 HP (model 397.19670)


Note differences in: the central band w/ machine tag/label, main body shape is curved differently at the top, switch, wheel cover end-caps, and eye shields. The 1 HP eye-shields are not shown here, but they are 1 piece plastic.


I put the wheel cover end-cap from the 3/4 HP grinder on the 1 HP grinder; it mounts and has the same bolt pattern and arbor clearance, but alas - the dust/exhaust port is different. Too bad, I have more than 1 grinder missing 1 or more covers.


« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 09:55:25 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Wantedabiggergarage

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2012, 10:38:31 AM »
After picking up my 1/2 hp one, I am wondering what models use the thinner wheels and what models use the wider wheels?
Well, I guess a rule disallows, my use of a Dennis Leary song as my signature, LOL.

Offline mrchuck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2012, 12:41:51 PM »
Well, not happy yet with this grinder. The saga continues,,,,,,,
I dis-assembled it as far as I could, and after taking it to several electrical repair shops around here, the only answer was to cut off the right side shaft, and see if it will be ok.
I sawed the right side shaft off flush to it's housing,,, using my air powered reciprocal saw and a blade made for hard steel.
Smooth cut in 10 minutes.
Assembled it all back correctly, turned it on and no wobbles.
The flimsy factory 1/2" pipe stand will have to go. Too much noise and vibrating off the raised wood floor of the shop.
 My shop is a factory made building, that was delivered and set in place, on concrete blocks.
I will put the grinder on a solid bench, mount it securely, and see if it works quietly.
My main bench grinder is a huge 3/4 hp that has 8" wheels on it. It does not slow down when using a wire wheel or grind stone.!!!
cannot suffer fools happily.
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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2012, 12:09:10 AM »
Well, at the risk of being yelled at by angry guy for showing off, I thought it might help to start a gallery of sorts of the different block grinders - various HP, models, wheel sizes, lamp styles.

I'll start with a few I have.

1/4 HP Model: 397.19400   (not mine, gift to my brother)




1/2 HP Model: 397.19440




3/4 HP Model: 397.19350 The eye shields are from a 'block-like' grinder below: Lil' Brownie




Big Blue No apparent label, maybe revealed when paint is gently stripped. Seller claimed it is a 1 HP.




1/3 HP Lille' Brownie Model: 115.7566 Not a true Block Grinder, but body shape similar to the 3/4 HP (model 397.19670) above.




I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline atlinwi202

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Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2012, 12:40:00 AM »
I went to a showing for a possible new house today. The house and garage were ok. Downstairs however, there was a beautiful 1/2 Hp cman. I was tempted to leave a note with an offer on it for the Home owner.
-Andy

Offline BuckHenry

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2012, 09:49:15 PM »
Show-off!  angryguyx

x2
Didn't we just have a thread blasting people who kept posting pics of the same shiny tools?  :POKIE:




Actually, I enjoy looking at those grinders every time you post them. You do nice work Torqueman. thumbsup2

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2012, 10:00:51 PM »
Thank you!

Truth be known, since I lost (GM encryption sw) my home external hard drive, the pictures and some data on the grinders is a bit scattered, even gone.

So, putting them in a gallery is my feeble attempt to show the various block grinder models that I and fellow GGers have. It might be used as a resource to check what's been made.

I'm glad you like seeing them, I use them and have others lined up for a refresh. Come on retirement>:D
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline mtkst19

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2012, 11:57:47 PM »
here are my two grinders.  one was new in box for $50, other was used for $20


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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2012, 01:19:04 AM »
the second one belongs at my house.
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Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
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Offline mtkst19

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2012, 12:14:14 PM »
its funny that i paid the same as or less than the clarke import 8 inch grinder that i bought when i 1st got my garage up and going.  you can just tell when you flick the switch on that these old grinders are better unit.  come up to speed instantly and don't bog down like the import models do.  Makes you wonder how they can rate it the same when realistically they are no where near similar. 

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2012, 03:01:18 PM »
the second one belongs at my house.
??!! Now I gotta look for 1/2 HP AND 3/4 HP block grinders for you, FF?!   Will the madness never end!??   fishslap

I hope not.   thumbsup2
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 12:31:06 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2012, 03:03:03 PM »
Anyone know the difference in a "Commercial" labeled block grinder and non-Commercial ones?
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline toolguybak

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2012, 10:51:25 AM »
For clarification:

Source code 115 is Packard Electric (Division of General Motors), which included Sunlight Electric Motors (and grinders) back in the 1930s.
Source code 397 is Delco (Division of General Motors).
Source code 257 covers Allegretti & Co and Paramount, who continued the Delco models for Sears.

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2012, 12:33:39 PM »
For clarification:

Source code 115 is Packard Electric (Division of General Motors), which included Sunlight Electric Motors (and grinders) back in the 1930s.
Source code 397 is Delco (Division of General Motors).
Source code 257 covers Allegretti & Co and Paramount, who continued the Delco models for Sears.

Welcome to GG!

Good to know.

BTW - what's your source?

OWWM.org? by any chance?
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2012, 01:45:17 PM »
I found a site for motor capacitors while searching OWWM and recalled the recent discussion of Start Capacitors here.

http://tinyurl.com/Motor-Start-Capacitors
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline toolguybak

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2012, 07:15:50 AM »
For clarification:

Source code 115 is Packard Electric (Division of General Motors), which included Sunlight Electric Motors (and grinders) back in the 1930s.
Source code 397 is Delco (Division of General Motors).
Source code 257 covers Allegretti & Co and Paramount, who continued the Delco models for Sears.

Welcome to GG!

Good to know.

BTW - what's your source?

OWWM.org? by any chance?

Thanks!
My research.
Yes, you know me on OWWM as Brian Kachadurian.

Anyone know the difference in a "Commercial" labeled block grinder and non-Commercial ones?
General speaking, the commercial grinders are rated for industrial use and dual voltage.
The non-commercial grinders are usually single voltage 6" and some 7" for homeowner use.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2012, 05:24:36 PM »
I found a thread on OWWM on how to check the windings of a Split Phase grinder.

See the last post:
http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81679
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline toolguybak

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2012, 05:14:56 PM »
The Packard Electric grinders (115) have the centrifugal starting switch on the rotor, like their regular motors.
The centrifugal switch is a pair of weights connected by springs, that slide an actuating sleeve.
The actuating sleeve engages or disengages a contact ring mounted on the end bell for the start windings, based on rpm.

The Delco grinders (397) and subsequent 257s have a starting relay instead.

I believe all of the 6" grinders were split-phase.
Some of the 7"x¾" grinders were split-phase.
Almost everything else was capacitor start.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2012, 12:35:34 PM »
Here are OWWM threads on motor capacitors, Pulleys and Belts.

Motor capacitor help needed
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64032&p=511674&hilit=+capacitor#p511674

Poached a grinder across state lines
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77190&start=15

Pulleys and Belts
http://www.gizmology.net/pulleysbelts.htm

Aug 17, 2012 - Added link to Single phase motor diagnostic 101 and schematics - 1Ø Split Phase Motors
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69608
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/15/3/Technical_Reference_Area.html

Aug 18, 2012 - Added links to Fluke site that can be helpful with diagnosing motors & capacitors.
Trouble shooting single-phase motors & capacitors
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2105247_A_w.pdf

Trouble shooting 3Ø motors
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/download/asset/2105201_a_w.pdf

Aug 20, 2012 - Added link to buffing supply site:
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59108&start=15
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 12:29:06 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2012, 10:50:16 PM »
GREAT detective work Tourqueman2002!! some good info there

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2012, 12:31:44 PM »
GREAT detective work Tourqueman2002!! some good info there
Thank you.

Keeping busy reading about what can help with restoring OWWM & OMWM.

I thought others may find these resources useful.   coffeex
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2012, 02:19:02 PM »
Hey everyone, new guy here. Found this amazing post after google searching about a Craftsman grinder I just won at auction.

Here are a few pics, it looks pretty beat up but I'm definitely excited to restore it, going to be a fun garage project!

Can anyone tell me a little bit more about it? More specifically how old it is?

http://www.westauction.com/auction/808/item/48688





And what the heck is this thing:


Thanks all! Look forward to contributing to the community.

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2012, 09:02:07 PM »
Nice score!

Check this link for information on your grinder.
http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1

That site has a lot of information on these old CM grinders.

As to the date, it may be stamped on the inside of the bottom plate.

These are fun restoration projects, and spares can occasionally be found on OWWM.com.

BTW - welcome to the forum!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:07:32 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Avispex

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2012, 12:47:44 PM »


1/3 HP Lille' Brownie Model: 115.7566 Not a true Block Grinder, but body shape similar to the 3/4 HP (model 397.19670) above.





I am a bit confused about why you don't consider Lil Brownie to be a true block grinder.

I love the ones from the 50's.  Personally, I think I would rather find a complete cast iron vintage one than a die cast aluminum late 1970's one, but I do agree that the 1970's ones can often be found for $25 or so at garage sales which is a pretty good bargain for quality bench grinders.

Andy

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2012, 08:18:51 PM »

I am a bit confused about why you don't consider Lil Brownie to be a true block grinder.

I love the ones from the 50's.  Personally, I think I would rather find a complete cast iron vintage one than a die cast aluminum late 1970's one, but I do agree that the 1970's ones can often be found for $25 or so at garage sales which is a pretty good bargain for quality bench grinders.

Andy


Hi Andy, and welcome to the forum!

Lil Brownie was my first purchase of a vintage CM grinder.

It was only after I got it home and did some checking, did I discovere the model number (115.7566) precedes the Block Grinders that are held in high regard.

Goodfellow, in post #1: "The "Block Motor" grinder can be readily identified by the Sears manufacturer prefix of 397 or 257 (as in 397.XXXXX); which is stamped on the front label. Popular models include 1/4HP, 1/3HP, 1/2HP, 3/4HP, and 1.0HP Industrial units."

http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx?sort=1
115 was made by Packard Electric
257 was made by Allegretti Co & Paramount
397 was made by Paramount/Allegretti & Co (continued Delco grinder designs)
397                      Delco Products Corporation
I also like the style of these sturdy CM grinders. I own /have owned/given away at least one of each of the above flavor.  fishslap

Edited 12Nov02 to add Delco information.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 05:59:27 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline toolguybak

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2012, 08:19:18 AM »
397 was Delco.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2012, 06:33:58 PM »
the second one belongs at my house.


OK FF. I found a grinder for you.

Here's the deal; it's a 2 HP bad boy with stand. So I figure you owe me the difference in change. 2 HP - 1/2 HP = 1 1/2HP; you can just make it an even 1 HP.  fishslap





http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/tls/3350354924.html
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 06:39:46 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Alchymist

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2012, 05:50:31 PM »
Picked this one up for $30.00. Model # 397.19391. Anyone have owner's manual in PDF by any chance?

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2012, 04:49:48 PM »
I searched for your model without luck.

But, here's a link to a pdf file for a 397.19441 Craftsman ½hp 7"x¾"x½" Bench Grinder.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4794
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Alchymist

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2012, 05:30:54 PM »
Thank You, link most appreciated! :)

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2012, 09:34:08 PM »
You bet.

BTW - nice grinder & welcome to the Gazette!
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2013, 06:22:27 PM »
In case anyone would like to use my label, feel free.

I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2013, 07:49:49 PM »
I have 2 files for the above label.

Is there a way to 'post' the files for members to download, or is the one above (on PhotoBucket) just as good?
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2013, 08:33:19 PM »
Are the files editable -- so that the HP rating can be changed from 3/4 to 1/2HP for instance?

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2013, 09:06:37 PM »
Ooops, I've gone and done it again!  smackmyself

Dragged home another Block Grinder - 1/2 HP Model 397.19591.

But it isn't for myself, really. Another CM Block Grinder restorer used my label and is looking for a cooling tray and lamp shade.

So, I'm going to use the right wheel cover for the missing one on a 1/2 HP grinder I have.

I'm considering parting out this guy, but it is special. Have a look.


It is missing a left hand spark arrester, I have a spare. The boss for securing the bottom plate is broken, J-B Weld should take care of that. Otherwise a nice example at a good, but firm $30.00.








Here's why it's special to me - a schematic that shows 115V or 230V wiring.




Here are some detail pics. for reference. I have seen a post or two asking how a certain model is wired. This model uses a relay and a start capacitor. The models I've opened have one or the other, but this is the first I have seen with both. I don't plan on splitting open the case, but I suspect the relay takes the place of the start switch on the Model 115.7566 pre-Block Grinder I have. I think I'm talking myself out of parting this out. Quick - someone make me an offer. panicx









It has 2 good 'rubber' feet, that allowed me to make a drawing for reference. If some one comes up with good replacements, please let us know.



OK, I like to negotiate when I am buying/selling. I set my sale price with a little 'wiggle room'. So when the seller held to his $30 price, I was surprised and a little disappointed, but he was correct - the price was good and fair. It also included a stand made of bent thin walled pipe.

It was certainly puzzling when he offered an 8" CM table saw first for $10, then $5, then FREE!


I said no, no, NO! billcat  I'm in a 12 step program for grinders, vises, and drill presses - for Pete's sake!

I left and got 10 mins. away before I called a buddy and asked if he wanted it.

Well, I went back, gave the guy another $10 (he's retired after all, and as Dad use to say "On a fixed income!"). Then I delivered it to my buddy who is putting in a pole barn. I left with a truck load of plants that were in the way of the pole barn.  beerdude

A good morning!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 04:14:11 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2013, 09:09:25 PM »
Are the files editable -- so that the HP rating can be changed from 3/4 to 1/2HP for instance?

I am not certain. They were created for me and are 64KB .PNG format.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2013, 04:04:56 PM »
I'm starting another CM Block grinder refurbish/restore { http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=18119.0 }. I don't know what model, HP, or mfg. date. It's been painted Ford blue, appropriately because I picked it up in Dearborn Heights. I'm thinking it is a 0.75 or 1.0 HP because of it's base and 8" wheel/stone.

I give you Big Blue; aka - BB.


I tore it down last night and took some pics, which I will post up in a separate thread when it is done { http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=18119.0 }.

Here's the bearing information for reference.

This is the arbor Right hand end. There's a groove in the shaft with a 'E' clip just to the other side of the bearing. BTW - this is the good side of the shaft and bearing. The Left hand side is rusted and the bearing sounds like a 50's era dry roller skate wheel!  :eek:


Local shop said the original bearings were very old and discontinued; but a very common size and available.
Bearing Service
13400 Newburgh Rd.
Livonia, MI 48150
734-591-0400
FAX 734-591-1688
800-929-0200
http://www.bearingservice.com/




Edited to add links.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 10:34:42 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2013, 04:07:03 PM »
Looking forward to it!!

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2013, 04:19:33 PM »
Going back out to the garage and work on it right now.

Every thing is straight forward, except the label. I think it's under that Ford Blue.

I can probably come up with a reproduction, but I really want to know the model and HP.

I'm going to try:
  • Alcohol
  • Turpentine
  • Acetone
  • Lacquer Thinner
  • Paint Stripper

Wish me luck, and feel free to make suggestions.  billcat

I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Hofferwood

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2013, 04:47:31 PM »

I'm going to try:
  • Alcohol
  • Turpentine
  • Acetone
  • Lacquer Thinner
  • Paint Stripper

Wish me luck, and feel free to make suggestions.  billcat

Mike,
Drinkin' won't help-----believe me----- lolx


Heat gun---real light and easy ( meaning careful)
Chuck

If it aint broke, Fix it till it is!

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2013, 07:45:17 PM »
Heat gun's on loan to a guy I work with; and I won't see him for a week. Wouldn't ya know. I like loaning tools, until I need one and it's on loan.  :groaner:
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Hofferwood

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2013, 08:02:49 PM »
I am not being a smart ass---hair dryer
I just replaced the gfi plug on one, with a standard plug. I swear it gets as hot as my heat gun. But it says "Clairol" on it.
Chuck

If it aint broke, Fix it till it is!

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2013, 10:26:06 AM »
I had a Clairol type h dryer for the garage too. It burned out though. It worked great for moderate heat, the out-on-loan heat gun is a HD Milwaukee. I sure hope the gals in the house don't try it to dry their hair!
 flameon



Disclaimer: Icon used for visual effect, not as any kind of statement.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2013, 10:28:27 AM »
Looking forward to it!!

OK, you asked for it.
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=18119.0

Not another Block Grinder restore!  :groaner:
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2013, 11:59:31 PM »
I am not being a smart ass---hair dryer
I just replaced the gfi plug on one, with a standard plug. I swear it gets as hot as my heat gun. But it says "Clairol" on it.

Old hair dryers are great little heater guns.  thumbsup2

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2013, 09:07:01 PM »
I like them for light heating jobs when a heat gun would be too much.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2013, 09:32:07 AM »
I found a place that has many of the grinder parts I didn't expect would be available (including some of the cast parts and labels):

    End Frame (Case)
    Wheel Guard (Inner)
    Band (Center Cover)
    Label
    Tool Rest

Model: 257192190 1 H.P.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/craftsman-257192190-grinder-parts-c-158286_159871_159949.html

 th-bounce
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2013, 10:15:43 AM »
I found a place that has many of the grinder parts I didn't expect would be available (including some of the cast parts and labels):

    End Frame (Case)
    Wheel Guard (Inner)
    Band (Center Cover)
    Label
    Tool Rest

Model: 257192190 1 H.P.
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/craftsman-257192190-grinder-parts-c-158286_159871_159949.html

 th-bounce

Great job, but have you actually ordered parts from this source? It looks like a link back to Sears Parts Direct, and although the prices are listed on the Sears site, availability of most parts is not. I've had a standing pre-paid order for a label on Sears Parts direct for almost two years.

Unless this company purchased NOS from the OEM many years ago, or is remanufacturing parts based on OEM tooling, I haven't seen anyone (except the very limited stock from Sears) that has parts for these old grinders.

Good luck, the grinder is looking great
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 10:19:49 AM by goodfellow »

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2013, 01:43:40 PM »
I checked the order status this morning.

I had a bad feeling when I read this; actually ALL the parts are 'On Order From Manufacturer'.


 Bslap

I've been to the Sears parts site, all the items I ordered are no longer available.  :groaner:
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2013, 11:27:46 PM »
I've loaded pictures of 3 different Block motor grinder tool rest styles and connecting bracket to PhotoBucket.

http://s786.photobucket.com/user/torqueman2002/library/New%20Old%20Craftsman%20Grinder%20Tool%20Rests
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2013, 09:13:12 PM »
A friend found/sent this to me; I think as a joke. But I like it and think it's a good reminder.

I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2013, 07:57:08 PM »
Link to Jab`s grinder wheel truing device.

http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=19565.0;topicseen

Thanks Jab!
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline keykeeper

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #75 on: November 21, 2013, 12:51:43 PM »
Haven't been on the site for a while, but glad I came back on.

I have one of these, I think the 397.1944 model. Put in a new capacitor, but still won't start up and turn. Just sits and buzz's! Couldn't read the wiring diagram, as it was obliterated from -evidently- a flood at some point. Grinder was loaded with fine, silty mud residue.

With some of the info in this thread, this will be my next project. If I can't get it running, then I'll part it out to whoever may need it's parts.

I only paid $10 for. The stones are worth that, they are in great shape.

Mr. Chuck could probably use the shaft, if I part it out.
Looking for: Wards Master Quality 1/2 drive sockets and ratchet.
Vlchek WBE and WC series combo wrenches.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2013, 08:58:01 PM »
key ...

Welcome back. Good to hear you joined the brotherhood of Block Motor grinder owners.

I look forward to your restore.

One thought, if the grinder was under water or in a high moisture environment, I would not trust the grinding wheels.

Oh, we love pictures.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2013, 09:02:37 PM »
key ...

Welcome back. Good to hear you joined the brotherhood of Block Motor grinder owners.

I look forward to your restore.

One thought, if the grinder was under water or in a high moisture environment, I would not trust the grinding wheels.

Oh, we love pictures.

Torque's right -- dump the wheels. If they were moist for a while, then they are junk and can fragment.

Offline keykeeper

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #78 on: November 21, 2013, 10:51:22 PM »
Just the base had the silt in it. There wasn't any inside the wheel guards. I'll give the wheels the "ring" test though...supposedly, if you suspend them on a string and lightly tap them they ring if they are good. If cracked or compromised, they are supposed to just kinda "clink". Anyone ever heard of that??

Hell, if the wheels are toast, this thing may only be good for parts....new ones would cost twice over what I have in it!!
Looking for: Wards Master Quality 1/2 drive sockets and ratchet.
Vlchek WBE and WC series combo wrenches.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2013, 11:00:01 PM »
Key,

GF 's advice is good, and cheap insurance.

See post #22. In this restore of a water logged 1 HP Block Motor grinder. http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=18119.0;all

The stone passed the ring test too.

It is a great price you paid for a fine grinder, it just needs some TLC and will provide many years of service for you.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 11:03:02 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline mrchuck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2013, 12:13:56 PM »
Thanks for thinking of me!
I could NOT straighten the bent shaft.
So, I cut it off, with a little "stubby" that I may thread so to fit a nut on it to hold a grinding wheel.
So, it sits in the line of "projects to be completed some time.
I still have the wheel covers, tool posts, etc that came off this grinder, if anyone is interested in them.
Will trade for a nice ratchet!
cannot suffer fools happily.
"Always great to save USA made tools."

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2013, 10:03:50 PM »
I spotted a Bunn coffee warmer with a rectangular switch. Not an exact match to the Block Grinder toggle switches, but it might work.

WX1 Coffee Carafe Warmer
.....

P/N: 04225.0002
On/Off Switch (WX1 and WX2 models) (WX1A & WX2A models prior to July 1997) (Use in .687(11/16)” x 1.22 (1 4/19)” panel cut-out)
.....
P/N: 27689.0000
On/Off Switch (WX1A & WX2A models effective July 1997) (Use in .55 (11/20)” x 1.12 (1 3/25)” panel cut-out)
.....
Or a lighted rocker switch.

P/N: 03357.0000
.....

Several on eBay ~$9.00.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 10:07:09 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2013, 11:02:56 AM »
Here's one clever guy's idea to catch the grinder 'dust' exiting the exhaust ports on a CM grinder. Vacuum cleaner bags!  thumbsup2


I'm going to see if we have some bags left from discarded vacuums, and give this idea a try.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 12:50:40 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #83 on: December 15, 2013, 11:32:29 AM »
Cheap and effective -- nuff said!!

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #84 on: January 01, 2014, 10:29:56 AM »
So, given that there are many different CM grinder designs and manufacturers other than the 'beloved' Block motor grinders (prefix: 397 or 257); what do you think about this idea.

bluebolt: "Yea I always think of block grinders being flat top maybe we should call those half round top (prefix: 115) grinders mailbox grinders LOL."







I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2014, 08:52:26 PM »
I found a link to electric motor repair parts that might be a source for CM Block motor grinders. Like capacitors, relays, spring-finger (wave) washers, ...

It was posted on OWWM.com, as a possible source for a damaged start-capacitor switch.

http://www.carbonbrush.com/

I haven't ordered from the site, so I cannot offer more than another source to try for replacement parts.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2014, 07:45:47 PM »
Here's a link to a helpful post. "How to : Ring Test a Bench Grinder Wheel"

Edit, April 27, 2014 - Add note about limits of 'Ring Test'
The 'Ring Test' is primarily applicable to vitrified bonded wheels.
http://tinyurl.com/Grinding-Wheel-RingTest-Norton


http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=20608.msg266542#msg266542

How to : Ring Test a Bench Grinder Wheel
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 11:02:49 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline chuckphotonut

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2014, 03:34:51 PM »
Wanted: Used main winding and centrifugal switch for 1/2hp model 397 grinder! I have a very complete 397.19521 with a burnt out start winding and missing start switch, it seems as though someone replaced the start switch with a solid state switch box and when that burnt up it took out the start winding, I want to find the parts to repair this as it is the all cast iron model with cast iron guards and covers, factory light, glass and metal eye shields and cast tool rests and built in cast iron coolant tray, it is 1/2 horse any body have ideas on parts or will other models windings interchange? I can't find another pic like mine, only found diecast models, one with cast iron base and toolrests but not the cast iron motor housing, does anyone know if they made them long in all iron? My model number is not shown in the OWWM photo gallery, nor one that looks like it, thanks, Chuck

It looks like this one although the prefix is not correct



I also have this one made by packard very stout



PS I am a grinder junky, I collect cast iron grinders, I have a sioux, brown brockmeyer, rockwell, 2 craftsman, Atlas, Walker Turner, wissota, Baldor and Milwaukee! Most are 7"  half hp, two are third hp.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 12:28:42 AM by chuckphotonut »

Offline torqueman2002

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I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2014, 02:07:10 PM »
Here are some links, stolen from the 'other' site, related to grinder safety.

The daily grind: Test your knowledge on grinder safety
http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/26801/daily-grind-test-knowledge-safety

Grinding Wheel Failures Can Lead To Serious Injury Or Death
http://www.georgiainjurylawyerblog.com/2009/05/grinding_wheel_failures_can_le.html

Grinding on the Side of the Wheel?
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f19/grinding-side-wheel-8635/


I'm sure it has been mentioned before, but as a reminder: If you grind non ferrous metal on the same stone, then dressing the stone before reverting to ferrous is a must.

Another YouTube ring-test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52n8_-6cooY
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 10:31:24 AM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2014, 02:50:14 PM »
I just watched a video on grinding stone dressing. (one of my favorite YouTube posters: tubalcain, aka: mrpete222)

Bonus - CM Block motor grinder sited @ 8:28.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagmMb731Sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagmMb731Sk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagmMb731Sk
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #91 on: March 16, 2014, 08:32:51 PM »
I found a site that explains how to select the correct grinding stone.

http://www.uama.org/Bonded101.html

I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2014, 08:35:54 PM »
I placed a couple of orders for CM Block grinder flanges, nuts, and bolts.

1/2" Arbor (from 1/3 HP Model 397.19580)


http://www.1800toolrepair.com/

1/2" Arbor   791543-00 |     SBD 791543-00


1/2" Arbor


5/8" Arbor    761351-00   |    SBD 761351-00


5/8" Arbor



http://www.boltdepot.com/

8-32 x 3/8 Hex. Hd. Slotted Screw; Wheel Cover (from 397.19580 (1/3 HP Stamped Steel))
8-32 x 11/16 Pan Hd. Self Tap Screw; Wheel Cover (from 257.191600 (1 HP Cast))
RH Arbor Nut 1/2"-20 (1/3 HP Model 397.19580)
RH Arbor Nut 5/8"-18 (1.0 HP Model 257.191600)
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Brian L.

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #93 on: May 21, 2014, 12:08:25 PM »
Picked up a 1/4 hp Cman, what a beast !  #115.19500   "For Farm and Home use only "
Haven't even started it yet.

6/22  Finally finished this round top. New power cord so it's grounded now, new wheels.


Brian


« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:26:31 PM by Brian L. »

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #94 on: May 21, 2014, 07:41:04 PM »
Brian,

Nice find!

I was just over at OWWM.com researching original paints for vintage CM grinders and saw one a lot like yours.

You might get some ideas from there as well.
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=132919&p=891511&hilit=craftsman+grinder+paint#p891511
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #95 on: May 21, 2014, 11:57:57 PM »
So, given that there are many different CM grinder designs and manufacturers other than the 'beloved' Block motor grinders (prefix: 397 or 257); what do you think about this idea.

bluebolt: "Yea I always think of block grinders being flat top maybe we should call those half round top (prefix: 115) grinders mailbox grinders LOL."










I prefer the round tops myself, they are earlier but I believe them to be better and heavier.
You boys better hold on cause i'm gonna have to stand on it!

NEED A 1/2" BONNEY STREAMLINE COMBINATION AND ANY OVER 13/16" TOO!



Andrew Jackson quote: But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2014, 10:21:30 AM »
UB
They hold a special place in my collection, also.

But, spares are impossible to find. Li'l Brownie, my first vintage CM, is missing 1 wheel guard cover. By chance, I found 1 in Ohio on a CL search. It was sitting on the seller's garage shel and he had no idea what brand/make/model. I just happened to think it might fit, and after a few pictures and eMails I decided to gamble. It does fit, but I'm still looking for that other 1.
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2014, 02:21:41 PM »
I have started a thread that is a 'library' of sorts, for restoration, parts, links, info., etc ... related to CM Block motor Grinders (you were thinking something else, maybe?!) fishslap

It is not done, doubt it ever will be. So visit from time to time.

I have unabashedly 'borrowed' content from here, OWMM, and VM sites. I have cloaked our site using tinyurls, and have given credit for those that I have borrowed from. Should I miss something, my apologies; please let me know, so I can correct it.

The GJ Block grinder crowd is keeping me hopping.

Here's the link, please don't mention the GG site should you want to post over there. I've heard some GJ's don't take kindly to such shenanigans.

http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

 thumbsup2

Mike

BTW - the GJ thread: "let's see your craftsman block grinders" has been active with members posting found Block grinders for sale in various parts of the country. This helps those who are looking in their area.
http://tinyurl.com/let-s-see-CM-block-grinders
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline damcar

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2014, 06:52:58 PM »
My 1/3 hp grinder # 397.19391 quit on me and I think I need a new stator. It was running fine when all of the sudden it started to smoke and my GFCI kicked out so I unplugged it to check it out. confusedx What I found when I opened the bottom was the 1/4" connector and wire from the switch to the motor stator had fallen off of the switch. So I went looking online but found nothing which then sent me to the hardware store where I purchased a 1/4" splitter (one to two) since the switch has three connectors and I now only had two and they did not have a switch that would fit. So, before I hooked it all up I figured I might check with just the motor and power hook up and leave the light out of the loop for now. Well it started to start but the GFCI kicked out before it could reach full speed.  panicx Now I am concerned that it might be the stator (field) since there is some discoloration on the coils and it did smoke a little. Does anyone know where I might find one or is this guy just DOA? shrugx

 I am looking at the manual and it shows the part number as 4990633 which I searched for online but found nothing.

I have owned this since new (purchased it in 1979) and would hate to lose it since I never did really use it that much and it still looks great. If I do not find the stator at a good price is this thing worth anything to anyone?

You may send  me an email if you like. Thanks much.

Offline PowderKeg

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #99 on: May 03, 2015, 12:26:24 PM »
Well looky what I drug home from the auction last night...



Appears to be in excellent shape - I'm thinking about the only things the previous owner did with it was sharpen some mower blades and drill bits (he had like a bazillion bits, and other drill bit sharpeners).  Almost no visible wear to the spark arrestors or tool rests, light scuffs to the paint, and light rust in the bottom of the tray.  Ran it briefly, no "OH MY GAWD!!!" noises, smells, or smoke emanating from it, but it does take awhile to spin down after shutting off. 

Haven't studiously read thru this thread yet - or others "elsewhere" - but are there any initial recommendations on what to check/service on these before puttin' 'em to regular use?

Paid a few pennies shy of $50 (including the 10% buyers premium).  Picked up a few other lots, including a couple of 1/4" ratchets (big surprise there...), but this was highlight - and a primary reason - for going.

So does this make me a member of the Craftsman Blockhead Grinder Club, or is there some secret handshake I have to learn after a ritualistic hazing?   :D

Offline dagnabbit

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2015, 02:55:27 AM »
Howdy- first time posting, and have been reading through the posts researching the Craftsman block grinders in the past week (this site comes up a lot when Googling "Craftsman 397 bench grinder").

Having some buyer's remorse...

Just bought a Craftsman 397-19330 pedestal grinder off of Craigslist.  Wow, it's noisy, lots of thrust slop in the shaft, and the case is plastic.  Bought it anyway (the pedestal is heavy duty and looks new).  Took the grinder apart, cleaned up the roller bearings and regreased them.  The thrust "bearing" pack consists of two metal shim washers with a ring of some plastic (teflon?) material sandwiched between them.  After all the reading I've been doing on the 397 series of grinders, I'm a little underwhelmed.  Especially with a plastic case. And I'm pretty sure this has been taken apart before- it was missing one of the shim washers on one of the thrust bearing packs.

The pros about this- the stator windings are indeed hefty. Electrical components look solid.  Shaft is straight.  And I see room for some mods with the bearings.  I do find it odd that the roller bearings ride directly on the shaft instead of on a race. 

Has anyone upgraded bearings on this model?  I'm thinking angular contact bearings- while I really don't need strength parallel to the shaft, I think it would help with the stability of the shaft.  I'm doing my research now- if I can find angular contact bearings that are small enough (the roller bearings that are on there now are tiny- I was expecting much more for this size of grinder), with the right OD/ID, I'm going to try them.  The replacement angular contact bearings would need fairly low profile, and thick enough to match the original bearing thickness plus a new shim washer that would ride on the shaft up against the c-clip that the original thrust bearing pack butted up against. (and then new shim washer would need to contact the inner race of the bearing only)

This is making me think aloud- angular contact bearings need some kind of preload to take up the slop. And getting any kind of preload is going to be tricky with a plastic case that was never built for this kind of bearing.  I'm wondering if a wavy spring type of shim on the outside of the new bearing, that contacts the outer race only, would be enough.  And the big trick would be to jam all of this together with the two halves of the grinder case.

Seems like a lot of trouble and effort into what I consider a lower quality version of the Craftsman block grinder that everyone here adores... I just didn't get the one made of actual metal.   frustratedx  But- I think I can make this better.  It's in my DNA to try to do so.   :)

If I do decide to try upgrading the bearings, I'll post pics.

Offline mrchuck

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2015, 08:45:09 AM »
Welcome Dagnabbit!!
Nice post.
I bought a vintage Craftsman grinder like yours over 2 years ago.
This grinder was attached to the "flimsy" Craftsman tubing stand, and had been "knocked over" by this owner, and when the right wheel hit the concrete floor, it BENT the shaft, making the whole unit wobble when turned on and unusable.
I wanted to dis-assemble it, buy a new shat from Sears and get it original again.
It was just too complicated for me to do.
So,,,,I have cut off the bent part of the right shaft.
Now, I plan on using a Thread die, and re-thread this shaft and mount a buffing wheel on this "short" shaft without the wheel shielding.
Presently, it is on "the floor" next to my work bench, awaiting it's turn for the thread die.
Lots of members here also love this same grinder as yours, and use them daily.

cannot suffer fools happily.
"Always great to save USA made tools."

Offline Brian L.

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2015, 06:57:57 PM »
I picked up a 1/3 HP Model 397.19580 for a decent price, including the nice Cman stand !  Turns out it is missing a side cover, but I didn't let that detour me . 
So I am looking at the tutorial on making a side cover, but sure would rather buy one.

 Anyone got one for sale ???


See Post #93, I  am partial to that color, looks good !
Brian

« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 07:04:57 PM by Brian L. »

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #103 on: August 09, 2015, 10:24:30 AM »
I picked up a 1/3 HP Model 397.19580 for a decent price, including the nice Cman stand !  Turns out it is missing a side cover, but I didn't let that detour me . 
So I am looking at the tutorial on making a side cover, but sure would rather buy one.

 Anyone got one for sale ???


See Post #93, I  am partial to that color, looks good !
Brian

Nice vintage Block grinder.

The 1/3-HP m-397.19580 is likely the most common Block grinder; at lest I've encountered more of them, than any other model Block.

Take a look here and PM me.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4907420&postcount=2

The RH & LH wheel guard covers are interchangeable, and these covers will fit your m-397.19580.

 thumbsup2
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline hickory n steel

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2015, 03:59:20 PM »
Picked up a 1/4 hp Cman, what a beast !  #115.19500   "For Farm and Home use only "
Haven't even started it yet.

6/22  Finally finished this round top. New power cord so it's grounded now, new wheels.


Brian
I have one identical; to yours the only difference is the face that it was made in 12/58 instead of 11/60   

anyway here it is

    its in rough shape but it works fine the chord was weathered and cracked so I replaced it with one from a burnt out dremmel.

           the fact that the plate is stamped ( in a box next to the mfrs no.) 12  58  leads me to belive that it was made in December of 1958 ( correct me if im wrong)

it was given top me by a family member,  he works on a farm I think and when they were told that this grinder violated safety regulations ( one shelf and no shields) he just kinda made this one disappear so they could get a new one.   
" dont forget to bring a towel"

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #105 on: October 11, 2015, 12:50:27 PM »
Here's one clever guy's idea to catch the grinder 'dust' exiting the exhaust ports on a CM grinder. Vacuum cleaner bags!  thumbsup2


I'm going to see if we have some bags left from discarded vacuums, and give this idea a try.


Edit - Oct 11, 2015
I've received some good feedback about grinding sparks and flammability of these bags. Perhaps a better alternative would be welder's sleeves or other flame retardant fabric 'bag'.

I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2016, 04:13:36 PM »
Every so often a member will post the question or a variation of:
"How do I change the stones/wheels on a Block (bench) grinder?" or,
"How do I keep the stone/wheel from rotating when I loosen/tighten the arbor/shaft nut?"

I have posted some replies in the past, but today I thought it might be handy to start a thread [ahem, on the other site -  billcat].

Here's the link, I'd welcome your thoughts and input.
"How to change the stones/wheels on a Block grinder?"
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323969

BTW - The Block grinder crowd that visits and post on the "let's see your craftsman block grinders" thread, http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157794, is a good crowd. No drama or baiting of others, very positive and helpful.

That thread and a few others, are very similar to this site and membership.  thumbsup2 thumbsup2
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 05:23:31 PM by torqueman2002 »
I am a Blockhead, Man! http://tinyurl.com/CM-Block-Grinders-Why-the-Fuss

"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

"Well, I don't wanna be a superman, I just wanna go somewhere, use my hands, and keep it simple. Oh real simple" - Keb' Mo'

Offline Daves_not_here

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #107 on: July 10, 2016, 04:31:47 AM »
I'm picking this up in the morning, if it didn't sell yesterday.  Bslap

1/2 HP, looks pretty complete, $35.

I hope it's one of the good ones.  hidex
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 09:43:22 PM by Daves_not_here »
David

Offline fordtoy1

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Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #108 on: July 20, 2016, 06:32:02 PM »
I just won this on ebay, I already have a 1/2 hp and a1/3 hp block grinders but just could not pass up biding on this I hope I did not over pay, I don't think I did facepalm1. there was a bid of $158 but had not met reserve so I put in a bid of $200, it meets the reserve if I win I get $16 ebay bucks and its $17.99 to ship it for a total of $201.99 gets it to my door. let me know what you guys think? I'm not sure how to post this to the right  thread maybe someone can help with that. p.s. I am looking for a right inside wheel cover for a 1/3 hp block grinder 397. made early 60s only this picture came out in post but it is nos brand new never used, I will try to add more pictures
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 06:45:11 PM by fordtoy1 »

The Garage Gazette

Re: Vintage Craftsman "Block Motor" bench grinder info -
« Reply #108 on: July 20, 2016, 06:32:02 PM »

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