Author Topic: Automotive AC Experiment --  (Read 11763 times)

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2016, 08:33:59 AM »
Just reread the whole thread, great read and glad you staying cool!
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline stokester

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2016, 09:44:43 AM »

R-1234yf (2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene) - Another potential replacement for R134a. There are some undesirable properties of this refrigerant that have caused MB to have come out against adopting this refrigerant.

It's already here on some 2017 models.

Mildly flammable and naturally requiring new and specific equipment for service.

So for environmental reasons a mildly flammable compound under high pressure is being added to our cars. 
_Nick
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Offline fordtoy1

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2016, 12:35:34 PM »
YOU CAN GET R12 ON EBAY ALL DAY LONG angryguyx

Offline john k

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2016, 02:53:55 PM »
I look for a valve in the ac line tied to the airbag system to dump the refrigerant in case of an accident.    In the 70s, when we topped off the R-12 using the sight gauge, plus a little more,  we could get vent temps down to 33 degrees.  Car closed up, idling in the shop, hot humid days, and the windows would sweat.   This all kind of proves that old Kettering, the engineer that developed fluorocarbon refrigerants in the 1930s was pretty much a genius. 

Offline TexasT

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2017, 12:02:59 PM »
One thing I'd like to add is where you pierce the can with the side tap, take and scrape the paint off the can. You don't want little paint chips in the ac system .

Rich

with the right tool, every job is easy. - sprintveloce's dad

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2017, 04:21:24 PM »
When they declared R-12 was to be no longer sold a good friend who let me fly his pristine 450 Stearman, also was a chemist and owned a chemical company told me that was all about the patent expiring. He said the company that held the patent convinced everybody the R-12 was bad and the new stuff better for the environment for which they held the patent on. It is probably about time for the patent to expire again so there is the "need" for a new refrigerant.

Offline john k

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2017, 07:35:27 PM »
Don't know anything about the patent, but this all came about after discovering the hole in the ozone.   Refrigerant has been around since the 30s, and in cars since 1941.   The newer R-134a was introduced in the 94 Model year for the most part.  Two years ago newer R-1234 was starting to be introduced.  I can go on about the carbon footprint as it was presented to us, but it all comes down to which story you will believe. 

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2017, 08:47:05 AM »
^^^^^^^^follow the money


Could be some truth on both sides but I am betting on patent running out and then finding some science to justify they switch.
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2017, 09:13:52 AM »
The hypocrisy is that tetrafluoroethane (R134a) and difluoroethane (R152A) are used in most keyboard dusters and many industrial cleaners. The gas is vented into the atmosphere in hundreds of ways, yet only when it is used as a refrigerant in cars does the EPA step in and control the entire process -- and as a consequence drive up all costs associated with the process. I don't have to have an EPA license to use a keyboard duster, but I do to charge my AC system. It does seem like a rigged system that is dominated by a very powerful industry lobby.

As an aside, I have run this keyboard duster in my Mazda R12 AC system for two years now. It is a marvelous refrigerant and is very efficient. It's amazing that an almost 30 year old AC system has the coldest air temperature in our entire family fleet.

Offline krusty the clown

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2017, 01:20:57 PM »
DuPont held the patent for R12. I don't know who holds the patent for R134a but i remember the scuttlebutt and suspect it is true. Someone spent a lot of money to get the royalties on R134a.

Ray you don't need to be epa certified to handle R134a only R12.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2017, 03:39:08 PM »
DuPont did hold the R-12 patent. I was at a Navy supply depot after all this happened and was amazed at the banks of gas bottles filled with R-12. I asked one of the guys about it and he said they could get all the R-12 they needed as that is what the Navy used and they weren't changing anytime soon.

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2017, 04:58:46 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^well that makes sense,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the Navy R12 doesn't hurt the ozone layer :))
That scalloped box end is one of the few BB features that doesn't make Elroy puke

Offline TexasT

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2017, 11:35:16 AM »
The hypocrisy is that tetrafluoroethane (R134a) and difluoroethane (R152A) are used in most keyboard dusters and many industrial cleaners. The gas is vented into the atmosphere in hundreds of ways, yet only when it is used as a refrigerant in cars does the EPA step in and control the entire process -- and as a consequence drive up all costs associated with the process. I don't have to have an EPA license to use a keyboard duster, but I do to charge my AC system. It does seem like a rigged system that is dominated by a very powerful industry lobby.

As an aside, I have run this keyboard duster in my Mazda R12 AC system for two years now. It is a marvelous refrigerant and is very efficient. It's amazing that an almost 30 year old AC system has the coldest air temperature in our entire family fleet.

When you put it in did you change the oil to the pag or just continue on with the mineral oil?
Rich

with the right tool, every job is easy. - sprintveloce's dad

Offline goodfellow

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Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2017, 12:24:51 PM »
Stayed with mineral oil -- still working and going strong after two very hot summers.

The Garage Gazette

Re: Automotive AC Experiment --
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2017, 12:24:51 PM »