Author Topic: Engine Swaps - out of excuses  (Read 9019 times)

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« on: May 05, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »
I've been kinda dragging my heels getting started on this project, finding other things to do instead.  But, I want to drive and enjoy my new '70 Cutlass this summer, and it needs the anemic 260 replaced with a stronger 350.  The engines are both in complete, running cars and need to be swapped so I wind up with two complete, running cars.  So basically two engine (and transmission) swaps.  The fun part is that I've never done this before.  I'll post up some blow by blow, disaster by disaster photos as previously requested and fully expected, of course!

Transmissions are getting swapped as well.  The one I want in the '70 has a shift kit already installed and working.  Engines and transmissions will be removed separately.

The "subject" cars can be seen in the photos in this thread.  The grey 1970 Cutlass will be receiving the Olds 350 currently sitting in the tan 1972 Cutlass.  http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=19250.msg430206#msg430206

In the process of the swap I hope to paint the 350, replace a few small parts, install NOS Holley valve covers, replace some seals on the trans and clean up the '70's engine bay.

Wish me luck, I'm gonna need it!

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 02:58:44 PM »
Should have stuck to the Bugs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,motor out in 20 minutes :))

You will do just fine.  Take your time, take lots of pics, have a bottle of Jafe Juice on hand and get after it. 

If the Fatman and Little Buddy can pull a motor out of a fork lift and stick it back in, you can do the swaps.
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Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 03:09:18 PM »
I have never done a combo engine transmission swap from one car and into another. That said I do not understand why you do not just snake the engine trans combo out of each vehicle and swap them back into the other vehicle the same way, all one shot, not separated. Unless you are swapping transmissions between engines and even then I would swap transmissions and once bolted up reinstall it as one unit I would be inclined to want to do both in one shot.

Please explain what I am missing here?  shrugx
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Offline Altec

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 04:42:54 PM »
Takes the engines and transmissions out together. It is easier. Just remove the driveshaft and crossmember. A load leveler is nice, but I don't use one
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Offline slip knot

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 04:52:10 PM »
If you decide to pull the engine and trans together....make very sure you got an old output yoke or get a plug made for closeing up the output shaft. Nothing worse than several quarts of ATF coming to see you right in the middle of the removal.....I'm of the pull them both camp. much easier. thumbsup2
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Online goodfellow

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2017, 05:00:38 PM »
Good luck!! -- engine and trans together are usually easier.

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 05:20:59 PM »
VWs are too easy, I can do them in my sleep now!  Time for some challenges...

I've been back and forth on whether to separate them.  I'll need to separate the 350 to put it on the stand while I clean/paint/detail the engine anyhow.  My primary concern is that I'll be doing most of it myself and even a slow moving 700 pound mass over good paint and bodywork is more than a little daunting.  I'm not as concerned about the '72.  I've been known to get on site and change my plan so I may still do them together.

Great advice on the old output shaft.  I experienced the mess when I pulled engine/trans from my last parts car.  I should be getting one from a friend this week or I'll splurge and buy the tool.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 07:25:46 PM »
Hope you take some pics Clay -- would definitely like to see those wonderful cars.

Offline Muddy

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 08:03:56 PM »
Yep take them both at the same time.

Take lots of pictures to share here!

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Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 09:01:09 PM »
I found more excuses to procrastinate :-D   Well, that and I've changed my plan after some of the comments here and elsewhere. 

I have a "442" spoiler, otherwise known as the W35 option which a friend of mine resprayed satin black last month.  Rather than trying to find a safe place to stash it out of harm's way or transfering it from roof to roof, I drilled the holes and installed it on the '70 yesterday.

As for the change of plans, I decided to use the 4 post lift and engine crane and pull the engine/trans together.  I'll remove from the tan car first as I'm not as concerned about damaging it...not that i want to damage it...but it's a lower stress learning platform.  To do that, I need to move a couple cars out into the yard for a while and move some engines/parts around in the shop.  So I've been working on that the last couple of days.

Yes, lots of photos...I know how you guys work here  :)

Installing the spoiler was pretty straight forward.   I have a factory diagram showing correct measurements to the holes, so it was just a matter of locating the center of the decklid, measuring carefully, used a spring loaded center punch and drilled the holes.


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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 09:17:29 PM »
Looking great! Spoiler makes a load of difference --

Offline john k

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 10:36:04 PM »
Move the metric tools all to the side,  SAE here, as you know.  Glad you got the equipment to do both at once,  nothing like stretching things with too little equipment.  Always liked the 442. 

Offline Der Bugmeister

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2017, 02:40:47 AM »
It's moving along nicely considering I'm lucky to get a couple hours an evening to work on it, and this weekend was poached by my daughter's birthday and Mother's Day.  I've got everything disconnected (I hope!), and was happy to successfully remove the two exhaust pipe to manifold bolts.  Now I'm wondering if pulling the engine with the car on the four post lift is going to work.  You can see in this picture the car is about a foot off the ground with the lift at the lowest I can put it to clear the engine hoist.  The hoist is hooked up but not taking any weight yet, so the front suspension is still loaded.  I'm not sure I'll have enough clearance to move the engine/trans unit away from the car.

Offline Uncle Buck

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2017, 06:31:35 AM »
Seeing the car setting on the lift like that concerned me a bit as well. Pulling the transmission with the engine will require getting the most out of your engine hoist and losing a foot might prove a problem. Dragging both engine and transmission out as one would usually require having the engine tilted at quite an angle for the tail of the transmission to clear the radiator core support and related parts. I would also expect that even setting flat on the ground you would be working at the maximum limits for both height and boom on the hoist due to pulling both the engine and transmission together. (which is still the best way)  That said, that loss of a foot of height is too much in my opinion.

It looks as though you are a bit committed at this point. Give that fact the easiest solution to the problem will probably mean having to pull the engine and transmission separately. Too bad, pulling them together would have been better but at this point I think that is no longer an option.
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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2017, 08:28:30 AM »
I agree with Buck, I don't thing you'll have enough lift travel in that cherry picker to clear the engine over the front of that car.

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Re: Engine Swaps - out of excuses
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2017, 08:28:30 AM »