Author Topic: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan  (Read 10788 times)

Offline jamesemery728

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Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« on: November 17, 2011, 08:38:50 AM »
There seems to be a lot of interest from people about floor jacks and what kind should I buy. This is just a comparison between the NAPA (year 2000 probably made by either Lincoln or Hein Werner, not sure) and the new version of the Arcan XL325R that is made for and sold at Cosco by Arcan Tools, PO Box 1203, Travelers Rest, SC 29690, phone 1-800-837-5994. I called Arcan this morning and asked them why the XL325R had replaced the XL350R which has been around for about 5 years. They told me that they both are the exact same jack and the jack rating police had made them change the rating on the jack from 3-1/2 tons to 3-1/4 tons but it is the exact same jack and they still consider it to be a 3-1/2 ton jack even though the rating is now 3-1/4 tons. I have only had the Arcan for less than 24hrs so how long it will last and will I be able to pass it along to my grandkids I can't tell you. But it does appear to be very nicely made, the welds all look good, the paint job is well done, there are no sharp edges. I asked the Arcan rep this morning about spare parts for these and he told me they have the wheels, handles, and for $39.00 you can buy a whole new pump and valve assembly. The Arcan jack sells in Cosco for $99 dollars and I would guess that a USA made one like the NAPA is in the $450 - $500 price range now. Here are some of the specs on the 2 jacks.
                                       NAPA                            Arcan
Lift Height                        20"                              21-3/8"
Low Height                 4" for 8-1/2"                  3-1/2 for 17"
Weight                          heavy                             104lbs
Length                            27-1/2                          27-1/2
Width                              14-1/2                           14
Saddle                         5-3/4 square               4-1/2 round
Rating                            2 tons                         3-1/4 tons

Offline stephen9666

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 11:34:07 AM »
I would be surprised if NAPA still offered any USA-made jacks. It looks like this is the 2-ton model they have now. Price is $239.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NLE7916402_0331540606


I don't know if Lincoln makes jacks in the USA anymore. Hein Werner does, though. This one is $389 at Northern Tool.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200325577_200325577

Offline Busted_Knuckles

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 11:37:05 AM »
Nice post and background. The napa looks of a more dated design, also appears more robust, not sure on the thickness of the steel.

You might put a load on each jack, at full height and then "carefully" put a lateral load on the lifted vehicle and see how laterally stable each is.

The economics of these jacks is hard to deny, unless the cheaper one fails, then the economics changes drastically.

FWIW, both of my floor jacks are imports, so Im not knocking the Arcan in any way. I have a half aluminum fast lift Larin, and a large older 3 ton that I dont think anyone claimed to have made, both work well, and Ive had both for many years.
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Offline Hiball

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 12:05:53 PM »
I don't know if Lincoln makes jacks in the USA anymore. Hein Werner does, though.

Lincoln has nothing to do with Lift Equipment anymore, They sold the line to Hein Werner and HW93642 is the equivalent to the Napa in the OP's picture. 

Offline jamesemery728

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 02:29:14 PM »
Like I said in my original post, the NAPA was bought in the year 2000 so it is an older model. The steel thickness is about the same on both jacks, one noticable difference is that the NAPA front wheels are larger than the Arcan. I didn't have a way of weighing the NAPA jack but they seem to be about the same weight. Another good feature of the Arcan is that you can swap out the whole guts to the hydraulics for $39. Price wise it seems like a good jack, I guess only time will tell if it is a good value. I don't trust any jacks, no matter what country they are made in. Always use jack stands and/or two jacks, also use jacks when using ramps. Read too many horror stories to take a chance.

Offline Wantedabiggergarage

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 03:49:03 PM »
Realistically, IMHO, the diy'er tends to start out with an import jack.  Between being young (hopefully smart enough to use stands), and with limited budget, I see kids get them often enough.  Now, as one gets older, or more into cars, most end up with other jacks.  I was given one of those thin things that they call a jack, I used on import cars.  Work bought me a Michelin (Sam's club) jack for Christmas one year so I had a larger one.  When I found one of those Steel and aluminum hybrid jacks, that Northern tools sells, for a song at a damaged freight store, I picked it up as my load into the truck jack.  It however was jacked up by a Schmuck that worked at the shop I worked as, as he was too lazy to grab the heavy duty one and overloaded it by trying to use it on a tow truck. (we keep it down there for just jacking up motors for timing belt changes and such)
I only recently bought a USA made jack at an estate sale (I posted about it here).  I fully expected it would need a rebuild (sat for 20 years and was low on oil), but after cleaning and filling, greasing the zergs and oiling the bearings, I was surprised (didn't need a thing).
Saw another long reach one (missed the first due to me dealing with its owner, while someone on the journal was buying it from his father), but didn't have the cash this time (just paid the house and car taxes, normal utility bills and bought something I have wanted for a LONG time).  One will come again, just have to have patience and some money stashed.
If your doing it for a living, I can see buying a USA made one, or at the very least a spare cylinder.  Otherwise, watch CL/estate sales, etc and as I was told long ago (took a while to learn), patience.
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Offline Hiball

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 05:26:27 PM »
Like I said in my original post, the NAPA was bought in the year 2000 so it is an older model. The steel thickness is about the same on both jacks, one noticable difference is that the NAPA front wheels are larger than the Arcan. I didn't have a way of weighing the NAPA jack but they seem to be about the same weight. Another good feature of the Arcan is that you can swap out the whole guts to the hydraulics for $39. Price wise it seems like a good jack, I guess only time will tell if it is a good value. I don't trust any jacks, no matter what country they are made in. Always use jack stands and/or two jacks, also use jacks when using ramps. Read too many horror stories to take a chance.

If there still around... Ive been in the Hydraulic field for along time and ive spent numerous hours trying to track down "Hard parts" for customers over the years to No avail. I read your post "Over there" and was astonished by the $39 dollar price tag on the Replacement Unit, (That is so far out of the Norm for a Import Company, I dont even want to speculate)I actually put a call into the number you listed and talked to a lady but she was unable to confirm the Price or what you was getting, They are suppost to call me back.  Just Curious.. Are you sure it was for a "Replacement Unit" and not a "Rebuild kit" Anyways there have been numerous members who have been pleased with the Arcan units and a few who have inquired about parts to fix there leaking Jacks. Your on the Right Track.. Always use Jack stands and keep us informed on how the Arcan Operates over the years.. Based on the Type of seals used and the Hydraulic System i dont think you get near the Service life out of it versus the Walker System but it is Cheaper to Own Outright.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 06:16:40 PM by Hiball »

Offline plinker

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 07:23:03 PM »
The Napa 3.5 ton jacks are made in china, my Dad got one new in '02-'03 IIRC,  and it have seen alot of use.  I just bought one this spring for around 250$. We have not had any issues with either one so far.  I think my Dad's could use some oil or an oil change though, seems a little slower.   

He just got a "Winner" 3.5 ton heavy duty jack made by Shin fu.  It apparently was rejected by Napa corperate for some reason (possibily too heavy, dont know for sure ) and was re-labeled by Shin fu. price was about 250$ also but it's a beefey looking jack compared to the other two.
The Napa store bought some of them (along with some 1.5 ton alum. ones) and they sold out fast.

One of the guys at work also made him a clutch holder/installer to fit the jack. Makes doing a truck clutch easy now.

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 06:36:37 AM »
I have been able to buy a couple of US made floor jacks at prices low enough to resell.  They are hard to find and at tool auctions always bring good to stupid money. 

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Offline jamesemery728

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 08:05:09 AM »
Hiball yes if they are still around is a big "if". I guess anything you buy today is subject to the same "if they are still around" when you need a part problem. Ask anyone who owns a DeSoto or a Nash or a Willy's, Pontiac, Montgomery Wards products. I think that is just a chance we have to take nowdays. I called Arcan back this morning just to check on the parts availability after your post got me curious. They do not sell seals but rather the entire Power Unit Assembly for $39 which is Part Number 7 on the parts list that is pictured below. I also did the little test you asked me to do on the "other" site. The test was to see how many strokes it took to raise a vehicle to a predetermined height. The height that I used was a 2x4 on its side under the front wheel of my Ford Ranger. I used the point of contact with the frame of the truck as a starting point. It took 6 full strokes with the Arcan and 9 full strokes with the NAPA. Something else to consider is the distance you have to cover to get a full stroke out of the jacks. A full stroke with the Arcan you have to have the handle standing straight up at 90 degrees to the jack body and a full stroke with the NAPA the handle only needs to be about 30 degrees to the body. This really has no effect when you are using the jack but is only a point of comparison between them.

Offline Hiball

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 08:36:51 AM »
Hiball yes if they are still around is a big "if". I guess anything you buy today is subject to the same "if they are still around" when you need a part problem. Ask anyone who owns a DeSoto or a Nash or a Willy's, Pontiac, Montgomery Wards products. I think that is just a chance we have to take nowdays. I called Arcan back this morning just to check on the parts availability after your post got me curious. They do not sell seals but rather the entire Power Unit Assembly for $39 which is Part Number 7 on the parts list that is pictured below. I also did the little test you asked me to do on the "other" site. The test was to see how many strokes it took to raise a vehicle to a predetermined height. The height that I used was a 2x4 on its side under the front wheel of my Ford Ranger. I used the point of contact with the frame of the truck as a starting point. It took 6 full strokes with the Arcan and 9 full strokes with the NAPA. Something else to consider is the distance you have to cover to get a full stroke out of the jacks. A full stroke with the Arcan you have to have the handle standing straight up at 90 degrees to the jack body and a full stroke with the NAPA the handle only needs to be about 30 degrees to the body. This really has no effect when you are using the jack but is only a point of comparison between them.

I guess what i was getting at was that i can take a New Hex style Tank nut/Pump Piston Assembly, Ram and Numerous other parts off a New 93642 and they interchange on Jacks that are 50+ years old. As far as the Handle Position goes.. I think anyone who has ever been trying to reach a Lift point under a vehicle will disagree with assesment, There is a reason the Pump Piston contact is Lower and Angled Out. Speak up Members.... How many times have you slid that Yasui based Jack under a Pumpkin on a Pickup truck only be able to get about 1/4-1/2" stroke on the Jack? Thanks for the Test, I figured it would be a bit closer than 6 versus 9, I guess thats not to far off considering it has 1 less Pump Piston.

Offline jamesemery728

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 09:03:47 AM »
I guess I should have qualified my assesment of the handle position. It really does not matter to ME. If you were using the jacks every day then I guess that all those extra pumps would matter a whole lot but I am not using them as often as a pro would be. I think in the final analysis if you are a young guy just starting out or a professional mechanic I would recommend a good ol Made in the USA jack that will last you a lifetime and is repairable/rebuildable. With that said, you reach an age and a point in your life when everything that you buy is probably going to last you a lifetime. Regardless of the jack that you end up with make sure that you don't bet your life on it because that is what you do when you don't use jackstands. When my daughter was in high school 20 years ago one of her best friends was crushed to death when a jack failed. Don't let it happen to you or your kids.

Offline Matt_T

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 04:45:23 PM »
I guess what i was getting at was that i can take a New Hex style Tank nut/Pump Piston Assembly, Ram and Numerous other parts off a New 93642 and they interchange on Jacks that are 50+ years old.

Product continuity like that is nice from a maintenance standpoint but ain't guaranteed with any manufacturer. Hein Werner might go metric tomorrow.

As far as the Handle Position goes.. I think anyone who has ever been trying to reach a Lift point under a vehicle will disagree with assesment, There is a reason the Pump Piston contact is Lower and Angled Out. Speak up Members.... How many times have you slid that Yasui based Jack under a Pumpkin on a Pickup truck only be able to get about 1/4-1/2" stroke on the Jack?

I agree pumping near vertical isn't really useful. With 0* being vertical I'd say useable stroke is from 30* down to 90*. Also who makes full 0-90* pumps in the real world? A more meaningful comparison would be the number of 30* strokes with the handle lower down.

Offline Hiball

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2011, 05:02:33 PM »
Product continuity like that is nice from a maintenance standpoint but ain't guaranteed with any manufacturer. Hein Werner might go metric tomorrow.


Of course they "Could" but why would they? The Current Hein Werner and the Previous Lincoln/Walker Regime has ALWAYS been about Serviceability, They produce products that are renewable and take a step in a direction that would not only make all the Used Jacks Unservicable (without having one made)  it would also be a death sentence, On top of that.. I suspect the costs affiliated with Re-tooling would be tremendous and would no longer associate them as the Premier Hydraulic line. The truth is they have a Hydraulic system that hasnt changed much in 80+ years and i dont suspect a mass overhaul is in the Cards. Shinn fu already ows a large portion of the High end Import line via Omega, No reason to compete with themselves. I do think the US Lines of Hydraulic Jacks is a Doomed Venture, I suspect very few shops still use Hydraulic jacks much today with the Price of lifts getting cheaper everyday. I used to handle about 12 different service Stations/Auto Body shops locally and most of these places have very few jacks on the floor today and the ones that do just buy New every few years.

[I agree pumping near vertical isn't really useful. With 0* being vertical I'd say useable stroke is from 30* down to 90*. Also who makes full 0-90* pumps in the real world? A more meaningful comparison would be the number of 30* strokes with the handle lower down.

Only Jacks i know of that pump from 0-90 are Long framed Jacks and even then they have a Handle Position option to allow them work underneath vehicles/Obstacles.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 05:07:16 PM by Hiball »

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 05:09:23 AM »
Hey Hiball, how is you Granddad doing?
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Re: Floor Jacks NAPA vs Arcan
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 05:09:23 AM »

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